Why did Trump win and what will be the response of the Democratic party?

Moonbeam · Nov 8, 2024

Sunburn74 said:
I am just today finding out who won. I blocked the news for 3 days after the election. Honestly I'm not surprised. I never really thought Kamala would win. I hoped she would but her campaign was so trash and no one really knew what she stood for, nor did she take any even borderline controversial positions that would have shown a fighting spirit. The democratic campaign was so bad and honestly I can't really think of any major thing the Biden/Harris administration did that really moved the needle during their time in office. They were fine as leadership but the polls make it pretty clear that they lost ground with pretty much everyone (blacks, latino's, young people, women, etc). At the end of the day, they got blamed for a lot of stuff that wasn't really in their control. Then in 4 years things will reverse, people will see the grass wasn't greener on the other side and things will go back to normal. The more things change, the more they stay the same. At the very least as a 1 percenter, I'll probably get a nice tax cut so whatever.

I really blame Biden for creating this situation and the democratic party for not having the balls to just redo the primaries and instead going with someone who's never won anything on the national stage and is seen as less interesting as paint drying.

If you blame Biden don't you also have to blame the Democratic apparatchik behind him, his political handlers who advise him and write his speeches, prepare him for debates? And don't you have to blame the superficiality of people terrified by weakening powers that come with age? A terrible performance at one debate and out he had to go plus all the weakness of baggage that goes with being a traditional centrist Democrat? In my mind Democrats lose and have been losing forever because of what they stand for. I mean, how do you sell even good ideas to people who can't think or maybe even read? Have you ever tried to save a cornered wildcat? Fear creates insanity. How do you message into that?

All conservatives have to do to win is stoke outrage. What could be easier than that? Democrats what a large tent bound by collective promises. How are you going to serve the rich the poor and the middle class when the issues are economic and money supports your campaign. Conservatives set the rich against the poor, and blame the chaos on Democrats, easy peasy. Fuck the rich and they will work to destroy you. Well they have destroyed the Democrats who support them too. Who is the joker in the deck?

Moonbeam · Nov 8, 2024

MrSquished said:
There were folks here that talked to him point by point for many of those years trying to convince him with logic, facts, and cogent arguments. He only got worse.

I prefer not to waste my time getting all nuanced and serious with very shitty unserious people that will just gaslight you, like him.

I knew what he was, and so did others, so I feel just fucking fine, thanks buddy! There are some people on my social and in real life I've spoken to trying to change their mind and give them a chance, if I see any potential. Not wasting my time with those I know are rotten to the core.

I am well aware that saving you is going to be as hard as saving him. I might be better is I can first save myself. Believe me when I tell you I know where you are coming from. Like you, I know what it is to ride a high horse, but I got knocked off mine a while back and see things differently now. Carry on! Off with their heads!

HomerJS · Nov 8, 2024

Another reason

dank69 · Nov 8, 2024

fskimospy said:
You claim to want a civil discussion and I gave you a civil response and a question. If you think this was about qualifications then why did Trump being a rapist felon who attempted to overthrow the government not lead to his defeat? Hard to think of many worse 'qualifications' than those.

What are your thoughts on this?

Just so fucking weird that he isn't responding to your honest and civil reply.

Moonbeam · Nov 8, 2024

pcgeek11 said:
No. I said it because it is true.

I suspect that means it satisfies the truth you believe in without any sense of questioning. Perhaps you mean you take what you said to be factual just as the person to whom you addressed your point took his to be factual also.

Personally and only tangentially related to this, I find the truth is something I can never say much less prove.

Furthermore, what is wrong with hating people as a means of feeling better about oneself. The behavior itself seems obviously terrible but is anybody to blame for feeling it? Doesn't every person who has been hurt by someone else naturally desire to get even. Doesn't everybody what justice even if they may fall short of knowing what it is?

Moonbeam · Nov 8, 2024

HomerJS said:
Another reason
View attachment 111299

But but that sounds nice and all but what it really means is that she wants to steal from me to buy somebody else a house because I'm white and pulled myself up by my own bootstraps like the rest of you scum should do, you fucking pet eaters. I'd rather die than let you buy a house. I worked my ass off for mine. Go eat road kill like we do.

Moonbeam · Nov 8, 2024

spacejamz said:
damn....God forbid anyone has a different opinion than yours...and if they do, apparently it makes them a dumb ass. And democrats are still scratching their heads at the results from Tuesday night.

God forbid anybody has an opinion you're a dumb ass because you are full opinions so dumb assed you can't defend them.

fskimospy · Nov 8, 2024

dank69 said:
Just so fucking weird that he isn't responding to your honest and civil reply.

It sure is telling how conservatives around here lament the lack of civil discourse and yet when presented with civil discourse do not respond. It’s almost as if their complaints are not genuine!

That being said I will keep doing it because:

1) I think civil discourse is an independent virtue.

2) one of the best ways to expose bad faith is to give them exactly what they ask for. People discussing things in good faith will jump at the opportunity. People discussing things in bad faith will run away.

MrSquished · Nov 8, 2024

Moonbeam said:
I am well aware that saving you is going to be as hard as saving him. I might be better is I can first save myself. Believe me when I tell you I know where you are coming from. Like you, I know what it is to ride a high horse, but I got knocked off mine a while back and see things differently now. Carry on! Off with their heads!

You should learn from my efficiency with time - I have made many cogent points before years back to a lot of these dudes. Then I realized they were fucking goners, rotten to the core, and so why waste my time typing critical thinking and rational factual responses, backed up with links - man that shit takes time. There were a few other people here willing to do that so why waste mine? I'd rather just get off a dopamine hit calling shitstains what they are. Feels more therapeutic and a far more efficient use of time. All the time I saved trying to talk sense into rotten people I can spend doing other productive things - like cut my toenails or try to find true love on a dating app, cuddling my dog, watching paint dry, stuff like that.

MrSquished · Nov 8, 2024

fskimospy said:
It sure is telling how conservatives around here lament the lack of civil discourse and yet when presented with civil discourse do not respond. It’s almost as if their complaints are not genuine!

That being said I will keep doing it because:

1) I think civil discourse is an independent virtue.

2) one of the best ways to expose bad faith is to give them exactly what they ask for. People discussing things in good faith will jump at the opportunity. People discussing things in bad faith will run away.

You'll be like Moonbeam, trying to talk sense into the Nazis while they take over your domicile and rape your women, you know, the shit Nazis do.

VRAMdemon · Nov 8, 2024

fskimospy said:
I think I am honest and civil, would you disagree?

That being said, I'm still interested in your reasons for voting for someone convicted of dozens of felonies, found to have raped someone, and who tried to overthrow the government. Did you ever imagine when you were younger that you would support something like that?

You keep asking that guy the same things over and over and he doesn't respond. I'm not speaking for him, but I do speak and interact with many Trump supporters and it's usually the same response to your questions. They think Trumps felonies involving a payout to a porn star and bribes surrounding it are meaningless white-collar crimes that everyone does and gets away with and were tantamount to election interference. As for the rapist thing. They don't think Trump should be on trial for something that happened 25 years ago and the evidence was spotty at best, and again election interference. And finally, they just don't think Trump was directly responsible for Jan 6 and it wasn't really a coup in the grand scheme of the definition.

Now if indeed these are his views or close to his views on the subjects and he posts them here, there will be a landslide of posts from all these "progressives" with the supposed moral high ground calling them POS, scum, MAGA shit, nazis, garbage etc. Even if you always respond with rational discourse, it is drowned out by all the rabid dipshits ready to pounce with their tough guy act on here. Hell, that guy Greenman and pcgeek can hold their heads up high on here because they are talked about, called out in threads they don't even post in. And when they do post they piled on by all the frothing "liberal" nutjobs. They can't wait to pounce. Congrats dudes! you are the most popular posters on this forum! I wouldn't be surprised if when Greenman and pcman log in, they have their wives, friend's around the computer and say "watch all these rabid nutjob libs respond with the nastiest shit when I post my thoughts on this message board" for the lulz!. They may just be trolling this place just to point out the hypocrisy, who the fuck knows. This may not be a serious place to them for rational discourse to them. It's just for the lulz/entertainment. And it's not for the sake of them not trying. The "Progressive left" need to wake the fuck up on the messaging because they got their fucking asses kicked.

Sunburn74 · Nov 8, 2024

Moonbeam said:
If you blame Biden don't you also have to blame the Democratic apparatchik behind him, his political handlers who advise him and write his speeches, prepare him for debates? And don't you have to blame the superficiality of people terrified by weakening powers that come with age? A terrible performance at one debate and out he had to go plus all the weakness of baggage that goes with being a traditional centrist Democrat? In my mind Democrats lose and have been losing forever because of what they stand for. I mean, how do you sell even good ideas to people who can't think or maybe even read? Have you ever tried to save a cornered wildcat? Fear creates insanity. How do you message into that?

All conservatives have to do to win is stoke outrage. What could be easier than that? Democrats what a large tent bound by collective promises. How are you going to serve the rich the poor and the middle class when the issues are economic and money supports your campaign. Conservatives set the rich against the poor, and blame the chaos on Democrats, easy peasy. Fuck the rich and they will work to destroy you. Well they have destroyed the Democrats who support them too. Who is the joker in the deck?

Plenty of blame to go around. I'm sure there's lots plenty of moaning and gnashing of teeth in all those circles. But the buck stops at Biden ultimately.

Moonbeam · Nov 8, 2024

MrSquished said:
You'll be like Moonbeam, trying to talk sense into the Nazis while they take over your domicile and rape your women, you know, the shit Nazis do.

You probably lack the self reflective introspection endemic to those full of hubris, to realize this is an admission of a person suffering from a condition characterized by a deep state of fear. Drop the emotional state of denial and you will be eaten alive.

I already died. I let go and went to heaven. Your turn. I too once had great big strong hands but the Nothing took everything anyway. I couldn't hold on.

Sunburn74 said:
Plenty of blame to go around. I'm sure there's lots plenty of moaning and gnashing of teeth in all those circles. But the buck stops at Biden ultimately.

See, this is what I don’t get. How could the buck stop at a programmed machine. You must think you are responsible for all the unconscious baggage you have accumulated over a lifetime. Think of the blame for yourself that must cause you to carry.

And if you are telling yourself the buck stops with him, how have you manage to let yourself off the hook?

Welcome to the machine.

Moonbeam · Nov 8, 2024

VRAMdemon said:
You keep asking that guy the same things over and over and he doesn't respond. I'm not speaking for him, but I do speak and interact with many Trump supporters and it's usually the same response to your questions. They think Trumps felonies involving a payout to a porn star and bribes surrounding it are meaningless white-collar crimes that everyone does and gets away with and were tantamount to election interference. As for the rapist thing. They don't think Trump should be on trial for something that happened 25 years ago and the evidence was spotty at best, and again election interference. And finally, they just don't think Trump was directly responsible for Jan 6 and it wasn't really a coup in the grand scheme of the definition.

Now if indeed these are his views or close to his views on the subjects and he posts them here, there will be a landslide of posts from all these "progressives" with the supposed moral high ground calling them POS, scum, MAGA shit, nazis, garbage etc. Even if you always respond with rational discourse, it is drowned out by all the rabid dipshits ready to pounce with their tough guy act on here. Hell, that guy Greenman and pcgeek can hold their heads up high on here because they are talked about, called out in threads they don't even post in. And when they do post they piled on by all the frothing "liberal" nutjobs. They can't wait to pounce. Congrats dudes! you are the most popular posters on this forum! I wouldn't be surprised if when Greenman and pcman log in, they have their wives, friend's around the computer and say "watch all these rabid nutjob libs respond with the nastiest shit when I post my thoughts on this message board" for the lulz!. They may just be trolling this place just to point out the hypocrisy, who the fuck knows. This may not be a serious place to them for rational discourse to them. It's just for the lulz/entertainment. And it's not for the sake of them not trying. The "Progressive left" need to wake the fuck up on the messaging because they got their fucking asses kicked.

Thank you for this. I like how you point out the fact that fskimospy is exceptionally free from behaviors that characterize the liberal nut jobs, as you put it.

I have mentioned a time or two that we become what we fear and that all the name calling we were all exposed to as children to inculcate fear of bad behavior, the way to repress it so that for the rest of our lives it leaks out making us the new killers of children and each other.

What you describe here is how the other reacts to the other in the certain belief that only they can be right.

Since all of this is the insanity of someone else we blame, the service that fskimospy serves in my opinion, not exclusively or absolutely perhaps, but but clearly noticeable to many, is to ask for proof of what is only vapor, unconscious, unexamined garbage that produces insane opinions anybody free of the kind of programming that produced them can easily see for the nonsense it really is.

I see idiocy and idiotic reactions to it that display a cyclical nature. You can decide for yourself where you stand.

brandonbull · Nov 9, 2024

I'm guessing democRats are going to go even more left. They consider failure the result of not radical enough policies and rhetoric. The moderate types and the older leadership will be replaced with more politically religious radicals.

Moonbeam · Nov 9, 2024

brandonbull said:
I'm guessing democRats are going to go even more left. They consider failure the result of not radical enough policies and rhetoric. The moderate types and the older leadership will be replaced with more politically religious radicals.

I don't think they really need to do anything since Trumpers will destroy themselves. They however, take the rest of us with them.

Coalfax · Nov 9, 2024

Responce? No idea. Watch the dumpster fire?

Reason it happened, the American people still arent ready to accept that a woman can be president. No real other reason. Not saying I agree with the assessment, but this country just cant take a woman in charge yet. Maybe somday...

K1052 · Nov 9, 2024

brandonbull said:
I'm guessing democRats are going to go even more left. They consider failure the result of not radical enough policies and rhetoric. The moderate types and the older leadership will be replaced with more politically religious radicals.

People who can't muster a more nuanced analysis than "durr woke communists will take over the party" or whatever should probably stick to less challenging pastimes like finger painting.

[DHT]Osiris · Nov 9, 2024

brandonbull said:
I'm guessing democRats are going to go even more left. They consider failure the result of not radical enough policies and rhetoric. The moderate types and the older leadership will be replaced with more politically religious radicals.

Why not? Worked for Republicans. Let's fire up the new platform, eminent domain to replace all homes with hi-rise pod apartments, transition of all commerical protein sources to insect-based, halt all mining, drilling for fossil fuels, mandatory therapy and sex education for all citizens (refresher for the old incels out there).

Let's get this new world order rolling!

hal2kilo · Nov 9, 2024

Get some billionaire friends and buy up the media.

WilliamM2 · Nov 9, 2024

Why did she lose? She ran a horrible campaign.
When asked if you would do anything different than your (unpopular) predecessor, don't answer "nothing comes to mind".

If trying to win republican voters, don't team up with people the republicans consider traitors. The Cheney's...really?

Although I'm still shocked that Trump was even allowed to run.

quikah · Nov 9, 2024

Interesting analysis by an economist on how Trump tapped into the economic frustrations of the people.

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7434955659483057454

TLDW: 50yrs of stagnant wage growth greatly exacerbated by the pandemic inflation. People were fed up, Trump sold them an "answer" which won't work.

She has a lot of interesting videos, highly recommend you dig into her channel.

Ken g6 · Nov 9, 2024

According to Financial Times, the Democrats weren't the only party in power to lose this year. At least ten major countries have had incumbents kicked out, evidently over the inflation spike. I'd link to the story, but FT is paywalled, so here's the Slashdot link I got it from:

Democrats Join 2024's Graveyard of Incumbents - Slashdot

An anonymous reader shares a post from Financial Times: The economic and geopolitical conditions of the past year or two have created arguably the most hostile environment in history for incumbent parties and politicians across the developed world. From America's Democrats to Britain's Tories...

politics.slashdot.org

Amol S. · Nov 9, 2024

baydude said:
What happened to the 13+ million people who came out in 2020 to vote against Trump this election?

Maybe they thought election day was November 6th? You know those shows where they go to the street and ask people to point on the map to Africa, and they show scenes where some people point to South America???? Well the Jimmy Fallon show did a similar thing in Philidelphia, and some people thought Novemeber 6th is election day, and someone did not even know who was running for election. Starts at 12:45 in the youtube video.

MrSquished said:
I made this post in another thread but this feels like a better place for it:

Anybody trying to dissect what the Dems did wrong to lose this election regarding Kamala and her campaign, that don't bring up the huge right wing medisaphere that exists, along with a mainstream media that has mostly both-sidesed and sanewashed Trump, while not telling the truth about things like the Bidenflation narrative that was a Global inflation narrative, etc...You'll never figure shit out if you don't factor that into the equation. It's a massive part of the reason.

If you do want to mostly blame the Dems then this is the biggest thing to slam them for - the reality is the Dems should have pushed Joe Biden out to keep his word as a transitionary president and we could have had a primary. I think Kamala did a very good job overall - but America is not ready for a minority female president, period. But she was the only correct choice after Biden dropped out. But with the way things played out in this election with the cards we were given, you have to talk about the media.

I yelled and screamed, like some others, that Biden running again was a terrible mistake and we had to have a primary. But we all got steamrolled, just like Biden steamrolled over the best shot the Dems had to defeat Trump - a competitive primary.

But until the Dems get some major media platforms as well as creators, this will just keep happening.

I have an idea, why not create a Democrats version of Fox News Network, with the morning starting off with a video of Warrnok reciting a prayer, for the religious Democrats. The news anchors being Micheal Bloomberg, Michelle Obama, C.J. Wallace, Paris Jackson. MLK III and Al Sharpton would both have their own shows. Also, Kevin Hart will have his own news comedy show, as Fox has its Gutfield.

MrSquished said:
You fucking piece of shit the Donald Trump party has lowered the discourse and been calling names for the last fucking 9 years you disgusting piece of shit. And you fucking love it, but even just the truth of you people being told now you're so fucking sensitive to some names about what you really actually are.

I really wish nothing but ill upon you. You are the nastiest of the nasty.

You could have simply called Mr Green, "Nasty Man!".

Moonbeam · Nov 10, 2024

brandonbull said:
I'm guessing democRats are going to go even more left. They consider failure the result of not radical enough policies and rhetoric. The moderate types and the older leadership will be replaced with more politically religious radicals.

It completely escapes you that what you are saying here is radically delusional. Not trying to argue with you about it. Just saying what I see. It reminds me of a saying. He couldn’t punch his way out of a paper bag. If you want to take a swing at me, I’ll be in my nest eating cheese, kabitzing with the devil on ways to torture conservatives. More likely though, is that I’ll go watch Netflix and forget I posted this. I hope your agony abates.

Why did Trump win and what will be the response of the Democratic party?

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