Kamala vs the Orange Felon - Presidential Race 2024 - Polls, News, Etc...

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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,921
9,006
136

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,921
9,006
136
2016 Biden would have been a mythical Jesus candidate? It's unreal how much you liberals keep pretending the DNC did nothing wrong and keep making excuses for them.
IIRC, Biden wasn't up for running after the death of his son Beau.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,507
11,145
136
If the US nationalized SpaceX, Musk and all the other investors would get a huge Payday. The US govt would have to purchase a controlling interest in a corporation valued at $200B+.

Is Congress going to authorize the funds? No Congress will not. Also SpaceX would have it tied up in the courts through the end of Biden's term even if Biden attempted it.

The only possible scenario would be if Harris had been elected and the Democrats got control of Congress which the opposite happened. So some people's dream of nationalizing SpaceX will have to wait.
Since when has anything been nationalized in this country. It's another third rail.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,921
9,006
136
Since when has anything been nationalized in this country. It's another third rail.
This guy Musk has become a big problem with so many big irons in the fire, a shit ton of money, a desire to run or at least influence everything and a head full of horrible ideas. He's got company, but right now he's the oligarch supreme. I wonder how Murdoch got to where he is (don't know).
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
49,018
39,130
136
This guy Musk has become a big problem with so many big irons in the fire, a shit ton of money, a desire to run everything and a head full of horrible ideas. He's got company, but right now he's the oligarch supreme. I wonder how Murdoch got to where he is (don't know).

His companies would benefit from him paying less attention to them.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,777
2,067
136
Since when has anything been nationalized in this country. It's another third rail.

Anybody remember GM, Chrysler, AIG etc. in 2008-2009? That is a form of nationalization, just coached in another term, bailouts.
Amtrak was a nationalization of multiple passenger railroads in the 70's.
A lot of industries got nationalized during WW1 and WW2.

Technically anytime the government uses eminent domain to seize private property, that is nationalization.

A HISTORY OF NATIONALIZATION IN THE UNITED STATES
 

RalphTheCow

Senior member
Sep 14, 2000
676
159
116
Why does the whole world think that correlation is causation by tossing out all the incumbents? I don't think that US presidents have nearly the control over the world economy and peace status as they are made out to have. Trump was rightly blamed for shitty handling of covid, but the disease was beyond his control. But Biden/Harris didn't mishandle inflation which I think was also caused by the pandemic. I guess there is an argument to be made that all the spending helped cause inflation, but it being worldwide sort of hampers that theory. Economics, the dismal science!
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
12,185
3,108
136
Why does the whole world think that correlation is causation by tossing out all the incumbents? I don't think that US presidents have nearly the control over the world economy and peace status as they are made out to have. Trump was rightly blamed for shitty handling of covid, but the disease was beyond his control. But Biden/Harris didn't mishandle inflation which I think was also caused by the pandemic. I guess there is an argument to be made that all the spending helped cause inflation, but it being worldwide sort of hampers that theory. Economics, the dismal science!
The disease was beyond his control, but pandemic response wasn't. Which is why he lost the 2020 election.

Biden didn't cause global inflation, but 2021 stimulus probably juiced domestic inflation a bit (my unsubstantiated guess is by a couple percentage points). Economists can debate that stuff, but it doesn't really matter. The electorate has said for the past couple years they hate Bidenomics, and they showed it at the polls. Perception is reality.

The (painful) irony is that the Federal Reserve actually pulled off the mythical "soft landing," only the second time in modern history that has happened. Voters have no idea what that means, of course.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
49,018
39,130
136
The disease was beyond his control, but pandemic response wasn't. Which is why he lost the 2020 election.

Biden didn't cause global inflation, but 2021 stimulus probably juiced domestic inflation a bit (my unsubstantiated guess is by a couple percentage points). Economists can debate that stuff, but it doesn't really matter. The electorate has said for the past couple years they hate Bidenomics, and they showed it at the polls. Perception is reality.

The (painful) irony is that the Federal Reserve actually pulled off the mythical "soft landing," only the second time in modern history that has happened. Voters have no idea what that means, of course.

Something to note also is that the Euros did way less stimulus than we did and ruling parties still got wiped. Voters just mad period.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
12,185
3,108
136
Something to note also is that the Euros did way less stimulus than we did and ruling parties still got wiped. Voters just mad period.
Sure. It's "wild" that the U.S. macroeconomy is the envy of all of its peers, while some 70% of the electorate grumbled that things are lousy (while still spending like drunken sailors on shore leave).

As they say, things could be a lot worse and we suspect a lot of voters FA and will FO.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,507
11,145
136
Something to note also is that the Euros did way less stimulus than we did and ruling parties still got wiped. Voters just mad period.
Something about having to where a mask to keep your job. Police state, police state, communism......
 
Reactions: sandorski

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,921
9,006
136
Anybody remember GM, Chrysler, AIG etc. in 2008-2009? That is a form of nationalization, just coached in another term, bailouts.
Amtrak was a nationalization of multiple passenger railroads in the 70's.
A lot of industries got nationalized during WW1 and WW2.

Technically anytime the government uses eminent domain to seize private property, that is nationalization.

A HISTORY OF NATIONALIZATION IN THE UNITED STATES
An early-on eye-opening snippet from the above linked history of nationalization in the USA:

In order to navigate these intersecting ecological and economic crises within the necessary (and shortening) time frames, we will likely need to take over and decommission the large fossil fuel extraction corporations that are both one of the leading causes of climate change and one of the primary institutional impediments to addressing it. On its face, this seems absurdly radical and improbable in the type of capitalist system that exists in the United States. However, the United States actually has a long and rich tradition of nationalizing private enterprise, especially during times of economic and social crisis. Importantly, this approach has often been deployed when private companies are hindering national efforts to address a crisis (either through obstruction, incompetence, or incapacity). This history of nationalization, along with other robust government economic interventions, suggests that far from being a non-starter, a public takeover of the fossil fuel industry should be considered an eminently plausible and viable policy option for dealing with the forthcoming climate crisis.
 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
3,600
2,821
136
Lake isn't getting the margins she'd need out of Maricopa to win AZSEN. Appears to be basically over.

Ohhh it’s not even close to being over. She will raise a huge stink if she doesn’t win and it will drag in for atleast a year maybe 2
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
24,281
13,773
136
There is an uncomfortable talk we have not had yet.

If all it takes is a momentary dip in living standards for democracy to kill itself off... Then this was always going to happen. Be it war volcano meteor or climate change. My logic circuits pretty much all line up that democracy is an unstable local minimum. How can it not be.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,921
9,006
136
Ohhh it’s not even close to being over. She will raise a huge stink if she doesn’t win and it will drag in for at least a year maybe 2
She's undoubtedly still in the Republican election denier camp, both for Trump and herself, like last time.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,921
9,006
136
There is an uncomfortable talk we have not had yet.

If all it takes is a momentary dip in living standards for democracy to kill itself off... Then this was always going to happen. Be it war volcano meteor or climate change. My logic circuits pretty much all line up that democracy is an unstable local minimum. How can it not be.
Those are very different phenomena. Meteors that fuck up bigtime are pretty rare. Wars not so much. Volcanos are limited in range. Climate change is our existential crisis. Trump calls it a hoax. The man will go down as an ass, there is no doubt.

Democracy is one of mankind's great ideas. It started AFAIK in Greece.

Edit, looking, I found this discussion:

 
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