Israel: We Are At War

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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
28,030
27,434
136
Yea - very disappointed in the Biden administration; i know it will be worse with Trump but not sure how much worse. I understand the political optics that is impacting the administration but damn it there is no doubt of Israel crimes against humanity and since Biden is out going he should have the stomach to tell it like it is....
Well the new ambassador doesn't believe Palestinians are an actual people, doesn't believe in the west bank and subscribes to a belief system that is is important to get all the jews back to israel so Christ can come back to earth ASAP. The Trump admin won't give a shit if Israel kills all the Palestinians "to defeat Hamas" and takes all their land.

So it's going to be exponentially worse.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,273
45,861
136
Well the new ambassador doesn't believe Palestinians are an actual people, doesn't believe in the west bank and subscribes to a belief system that is is important to get all the jews back to israel so Christ can come back to earth ASAP. The Trump admin won't give a shit if Israel kills all the Palestinians "to defeat Hamas" and takes all their land.

So it's going to be exponentially worse.
lol, exponentially worse compared to a genocide that we are already ok with....
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,980
12,098
136
lol, exponentially worse compared to a genocide that we are already ok with....

Yeah, it's not a great argument, though in its favour I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are weapons that GQP America will be happy to let Israel have (and tactics that they will unquestionably let Israel use) that even the Biden administration would have said, "jesus fuck no" to.

I think it's fair to say that the problem with the Biden administration regarding Israel was that they continued the US's great tradition of kowtowing to Israel and more importantly that there wasn't (IIRC) a historic red line that Israel couldn't cross without seeing consequences. However with GQP America, I'm sure that they would actively celebrate the complete destruction of Palestine and use it as a personal political win. Therefore logically a final solution to the Palestinian problem combined with a quick clean-up is favourable to the GQP and Israel, and the US media will go along with it as long as someone doesn't pull off a *major* exposé that even the most die-hard Israel fans are running for cover. These days I have no idea what "major" would look like since the average Israel fan is absolutely cool with bombing hospitals etc. How would the Holocaust have looked in history if the Nazis had won?
 

linkgoron

Platinum Member
Mar 9, 2005
2,459
1,035
136
Good job for those protest voting Trump because of how Biden handled the war in Gaza.

The Israeli Minister of Finance has stated that following Trump's win ("brings an important opportunity for the state of Israel"), his office will start planning annexing of parts of the west bank (Probably not in full, but who knows).
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,496
9,520
136
Good job for those protest voting Trump because of how Biden handled the war in Gaza.

The Israeli Minister of Finance has stated that following Trump's win ("brings an important opportunity for the state of Israel"), his office will start planning annexing of parts of the west bank (Probably not in full, but who knows).

It was always monumentally stupid logic to do anything that would help Trump win because you are/were angry with how Biden handled the crisis. Trump is orders of magnitude worse for all parties involved except Netanyahu.

To those that did just that, you got exactly what you wanted. Kudos.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,273
45,861
136
Oh , so now it's worse because they are saying what they will be doing instead of just doing it and making up bullshit excuses for it? it seem the the last president with the balls to actually say no to that regime was Bush the 1st, maybe Reagan.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,273
45,861
136

international law only seems to apply when the US wants something

Also, lol


Article is in Hebrew :

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/yokra14148990

DF investigation: Hours before the surprise attack, the Prime Minister's Office was updated with extensive intelligence information

The evidence in the investigation contradicts the version of Netanyahu's people, according to which the bureau was not updated on signs from the Strip: Col. S., the intelligence officer at the bureau, received news starting at 02:00, including alarming indications. This is the same officer about whom there was concern that senior officials were in possession of the documentation His embarrassment. The Prime Minister's office does not deny the news, but claim and emphasize that the Prime Minister himself received the The first report is only at 06:29

Throughout the night preceding the Hamas attack on October 7 , Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu 's office received a series of updates from the IDF and the intelligence community, which included a lot of information about alarming signs, alongside reassuring signs, collected from the Gaza Strip from several sources: this is according to an IDF investigation which is being concluded these days, and focuses on the events of the last day before Hamas terrorists invaded Israel.

Some of this information was also transferred at the same time to the HML of the National Security Headquarters , which is staffed at all hours of the day, and is also part of the Prime Minister's Office and is under his responsibility and command. Col. S., the intelligence officer in the Prime Minister's Office, one of the people most valued by Netanyahu , he is the one who received the updates, through encrypted cellular communication and through phone calls from the operations center of the research division at AMAN, where the commanders asked to verify Because he received and read the messages.

The information was passed on to a series of senior officials at the General Staff, the Operations Division and the Prime Minister's Office from the HML, which operates around the clock of the Research Division at the AMN, which is supposed to receive and process in real time all the materials collected by the intelligence community. In cases where these are matters of immediate and urgent significance - The CML's role is to distribute these materials further. The Office of the Chief of Staff distributed the materials in a group in a WhatsApp-like application on the encrypted cell phone, where there are several very senior members of the security establishment, including Col. S., the intelligence officer of the Prime Minister's Office and the Prime Minister.

Through the encrypted phone, known in the IDF as a military cell phone, not only information about the activation of cell phones with Israeli SIM cards flowed; There was also information from other sources that the senior military command of Hamas went down to protected areas for emergency purposes - a sign that may indicate a possible attack is approaching. However, all the intelligence officials, led by the intelligence officer of the Southern Command who is responsible for gathering the data, held the opinion at the time that this was not an all-out attack by Hamas, and believed that it might be a drill, or preparations for an Israeli attack that Hamas feared, or - less likely - On a one-off raid by the organization across the border with the aim of kidnapping soldiers or civilians, and in any case, there is no immediate threat to Hall. Among other things, it was stated in these messages that "Today and yesterday the windows were blacked out in certain areas of Gaza. This is not an unusual thing, since such tests were carried out in Hamas last year as well. To the understanding of the division and the command, Hamas has not changed its routine."

The details of the conversations that took place on the morning of 7/10 between Netanyahu and his military secretary Avi Gil are currently being investigated by the police. This, after Gil complained to the ombudsman that the time and content of conversations were written down in a different way than what actually happened. When he turned to the office employee who compiled the records, she said that she had no choice - after a very senior official in the bureau ordered her to act this way

From 2:00 at night until shortly before dawn, the intelligence officer in the Prime Minister's office, Col. S., confirmed that he received these materials, including the summary of the assessment of the Chief of Staff's situation, which took place just before 4:00 and included the worrisome signs alongside the soothing signs. According to two senior officers in the IDF, Col. S. told senior military officials that upon receiving the information he tried to call several senior officials in the bureau - but was unable to reach them. The IDF spokesman refused to comment on the matter, including the identity of the parties with whom, if he tried, Col. S. tried to make contact.

Col. S. is the one about whom the suspicion arose , months later, that Netanyahu's chief of staff Tzachi Braverman was in possession of his embarrassing documentation - and tried to make unfair use of this documentation .

The investigation, which is one of many being conducted and nearing completion and conclusion in the IDF's investigation system, deals, among other things, with the manner in which the news was collected and received from Gaza with the help of the various sources, of the Amman and the Shin Bet, in the day before the Hamas attack. It examined the manner in which they were handled The news, how it was evaluated, and no less important - to whom it was distributed and when.

What emerges from the investigation contradicts the claims that have been heard from the Prime Minister's office since October 7, either officially as announcements by the bureau, or from spokesmen close to the bureau who hold positions in various channels and media - as if nothing of the alarming signs gathered by the intelligence community during the day before 6 :29 On the morning of the cursed Saturday, he did not arrive at the office in any form.

The details of the conversations that took place in the morning between Netanyahu and his military secretary Major General Avi Gil are the ones that are currently, among other things, at the heart of the police investigation. This, after Gil complained to the Legal Adviser to the Government Gali Beharve-Miara that the times of the conversations and the content of the conversations were put on the record in a different way than they actually took place. When he turned to the office employee who compiled the records, she told him that she had no choice - after a very senior official in the office ordered her to do so.

However, the dramatic material mentioned here, included in the IDF investigation, does not refer to that conversation - but to the hours before that.

On Monday, it was revealed in Ynet and Yediot Ahronoth that at the center of the investigations in the Prime Minister's Office are the "SIM card operation" - and the attempts to obscure knowledge of the issue before the attack . In the early hours of the night between October 6th and 7th, more and more signs began to emerge in the intelligence community about the installation of phones with Israeli symbols. The sim affair would shortly after the outbreak of war become one of the most heated points of contention between the security establishment and the Prime Minister's office and its head. The bureau has made every effort since the war to claim that Netanyahu is not responsible for the failure, and that all responsibility rests with the IDF and the intelligence community, who not only did not know that Hamas was about to launch an attack - but also excluded Netanyahu from the information that had accumulated until it began.

At the center of the SIM affair are two questions about which there is a huge debate: first, what did the Prime Minister's office know and what did the Prime Minister himself know about the SIM card monitoring operation launched by the Shin Bet, which was looking for signs indicating the possibility of a planned operation by Hamas in the years and months before the war? Second, what Was it reported to the Prime Minister's office about the fact that wires were activated during the previous two days, and especially the night before the Hamas invasion of Israel?

It turns out that this is a series of reports and at least one phone call, which reached the bureau and the MLA and included a lot of information. One report concerned indications of the opening of "emergency assets", such that Hamas used before and during operations against Israel. The report stated that in the evening hours of Friday , October 6, alerts were received about the destruction of these emergency assets.

At around 2:00 an update came regarding the destruction of the SIMs in certain areas of Gaza, and an indication that Hamas terrorists activated the Israeli SIM in a way that may indicate an attempt to evade possible Israeli surveillance. Along with the alarming signs, it is written in the material passed on to all the security establishment officials and the Prime Minister's office that a possible reassuring sign is the fact that even a year ago there were activations of phones with Israeli codes, part of a routine process of maintaining subscriptions and payments for these phones.

Later came an update about another indication, which may indicate "emergency conduct" by Hamas, a situation which may also indicate the possibility that Hamas is preparing for an Israeli attack, and is also preparing to attack Israel. Later, the Chief of Staff's summary of the situation was conveyed. At 3:55 - another announcement about indications of a transition to an emergency on the one hand, but also to routine on the other. While waiting for more materials from the intelligence officer of the Southern Command, a series of meetings and meetings of the situation were scheduled for the morning hours. "The information Primary and there are routine characteristics in Hamas. A discussion on the matter will be held by the intelligence officer of the Southern Command at 8:30 a.m. and by the general of the Southern Command at 10:00 a.m.," it said there.

Netanyahu was probably not informed directly. It is likely that it will be investigated why - and if they tried to wake him up

These things, which are revealed here for the first time, alongside the publications in "Kan" news and Keshet news that at 02:57 a report on at least some of these materials was forwarded to the headquarters hotline for national security, indicate that the claim that the prime minister's office or the professional bodies dealing with security on his behalf were updated only at the same time as the attack began Hamas is not correct. The Prime Minister was apparently not informed directly, and it is likely that an investigation will be conducted as to why he was not informed, and if the Chief of Staff, Colonel S. or other senior officials in the bureau tried to wake him up or should have woken him up.

However, as a senior official familiar with the details says, "It is possible, and this also needs to be checked, that in light of the data that was transferred and points to suspicious signs alongside normal signs, it was necessary to update the military secretary and the prime minister. But these are all happenings within the prime minister's office and among senior officials, and there are A distance of light years between them and the claim that the bureau first heard about the alarming signs only at the same time as the Hamas attack, by which time, of course, it was too late."

The Prime Minister's Office responded: "The first phone call received by Prime Minister Netanyahu regarding the Hamas attack on October 7 was received at 06:29 from his military secretary at the outbreak of the attack. The Prime Minister did not receive any prior information about this. If Prime Minister Netanyahu had received the information first Therefore, it is doubtful whether the attack would have been carried out as it was."

The National Security Headquarters said: "Contrary to Ronan Bergman's false publication in Yediot Ahronoth - the National Security Agency was not given any warning early in the morning of October 7
 

APU_Fusion

Golden Member
Dec 16, 2013
1,371
2,048
136
israel misses genocide Joe's deadline....i know everyone's just shocked that there will be no limit to arms transfers

israel also sends in drones to pick of witnesses/survivors

Don’t worry Trump will end genocide after killing all of them to build hotels.
 
Reactions: hal2kilo

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
6,094
1,203
126

President Carter tried to warn people....and off course as is normally the case when you disagree with israeli policy he was called an anti-Semite...
Yea that is the problem in the usa - say something negative about Israel treatment of people and it is anti-bullshit. We are not critical of Israel because they are jewish we are critical of Israel because they are committing obvious genocide. The political leadership of Israel should be jailed not only for the act on gaza but allowing the hammas to attack and butcher the people of Israel so they would have a pretense for these attacks.
 
Reactions: hal2kilo

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
6,094
1,203
126
President of israel insulted all those affected by past pogroms by calling what happened in Amsterdam a 'pogrom'

I think the president of israel has done an excellent job of generating a level hate towards Israel and Israeli not seen for at least 50 years. Lets all give him an applaud.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,273
45,861
136
Come on use common sense - it is not because they lost the election rather as i predicted it is because the election have taken place.
nah, as soon as it's someone else's problem they become against it, just like the gop and the deficit. It's not as if Harris would have held back any arms deliveries , just look at what they've done in the past, they pay lip service while sending them more bombs
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,273
45,861
136

good ol' genocide joe, sticking to his guns and making sure they all starve

In an October 13 letter, Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin gave Israel 30 days to take “concrete measures” in light of the “increasingly dire” humanitarian crisis in Gaza. “Failure to demonstrate a sustained commitment to implementing and maintaining these measures may have implications for U.S. policy,” the letter warned.


The most concrete of these demands was that Israel allow at least 350 aid trucks each day into Gaza. But as the 30-day deadline approached, aid groups reported that on average, just 42 trucks were crossing into Gaza per day and sometimes as few as six trucks.

But after the 30-day deadline passed without meaningful improvement in the flow of aid, the Biden administration declined to make a finding that the Israeli government was in violation of its legal obligations, with little explanation for its reasoning.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,273
45,861
136
bilateral support for giving an apartheid genocidal regime 20 billion in weapons, but yeah vote blue because the orange idiot will be worse (dead is dead so i don't know how it could be worse for them)



about time
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,255
8,300
136
bilateral support for giving an apartheid genocidal regime 20 billion in weapons, but yeah vote blue because the orange idiot will be worse (dead is dead so i don't know how it could be worse for them)
(Really?)
Dead is dead, sure. But the question and results of voting is... how many will?
For Trump, he wouldn't mind if they ALL disappeared for some nice beach front property.

And let's not pretend Kamala would have been as kind to that as Joe. Different generation, different attitude towards war and violence. She would have found it less acceptable and with more consequence.
 
Reactions: KMFJD

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
86,098
51,666
136
(Really?)
Dead is dead, sure. But the question and results of voting is... how many will?
For Trump, he wouldn't mind if they ALL disappeared for some nice beach front property.

And let's not pretend Kamala would have been as kind to that as Joe. Different generation, different attitude towards war and violence. She would have found it less acceptable and with more consequence.
Yes, anyone attempting to #bothsides this issue is either ignorant or crazy. It was never in doubt that Trump would be far, far worse for the Palestinians than any Democrat. If people voted against Democrats to teach them a lesson about Gaza or something let me know how that turns out for you.
 
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