Discussion Trump 2024

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Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
12,763
8,959
136
Just look at Maduro in venezuela. Everyone knows he lost the election but he is still the President of Venezuela.

The people suffer but they don't have the willpower to overthrow him and he just flies under the radar because of "fake news".

The only solution is unpalatable to most.. divorce the country.

If you're not willing to do that.. just stay united under authoritarianism and be happy with beatings, kidnappings, shootings and disappearances if you say anything wrong against the powers that be.

That's about as rosy as you can make where the US is heading. Because if its not that rosy, its concentration camps and mass murder. You know the white nationalists would love an all white country again. How badly do they want it? Nazi bad or just beatings and saying racist shit out loud bad?

Hey, I'm in California, and a liberal bastion to boot. I have to look at your post here and wonder WTF you are to have such pessimistic view of where the US is going. People in CA aren't going to stand for anything like that and CA isn't exactly a pawn in their game.

Do you believe me now?
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,860
8,740
136
I hate to say I called it, buuuuut

Yes, yes you did. Genuinely impressive.

Have never understood the weird "Trophy points" thing on this forum, but if there's one for "AT Nostradamus" you ought to be awarded it (though the real Nostradamus was a bit of a con, but can't think of a better title for it)
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,860
8,740
136
A more obvious personality disorder, even less capable of formulating a coherent English sentence, still more philistine...

Heh, I could try and claim I wasn't entirely wrong here. Trump2024 probably fits the above description compared to Trump2020.
 
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NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,338
5,405
136
Yes, yes you did. Genuinely impressive.

Have never understood the weird "Trophy points" thing on this forum, but if there's one for "AT Nostradamus" you ought to be awarded it (though the real Nostradamus was a bit of a con, but can't think of a better title for it)
Happy to accept my Nostradamus label, and if the Democrats want help with strategy for 2028 then hit me up

(I can't do worse than this year, Jesus Christ)
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,194
5,747
136
If Trump loses in 2020, I think he's going to run again. Spend two years shouting about how the election was a fraud and suing the pants off the Democrats, refusing to ever admit that he lost, get his base whipped up into a righteous frenzy, and then win the Republican primary again.

Hell, he could even win the general election. If Biden has to spend 4 years cleaning up Trump's mess, the economy is probably still going to be in the shitter.
An impressive piece of prognostication.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
24,281
13,773
136
And he is going to continue lying to them... Alt fact has materialized in the real world.

Lies have replaced truth and the devil spawn is controlling the megaphone.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
49,018
39,130
136
I think I agree with this. He's already reaching irreverence now arguably. He can say all kinds of shit at these pressers and everybody just rolls their eyes.

Now for the GOP he's helped make their primary voters even more insane to the level that we're going to have Q believers in congress soon. Eventually this risks more people fleeing the party and a broad loss of power like we've seen on the state level when the state GOP goes all in on the crazy (Virginia being a recent relevant example).

In the interest of accountability I was wrong about this mostly. Chiefly because voters are big mad about prices even though the US had the best recovery by far which has created an anti-incumbency wave globally. They also collectively decided to forget about 2020 entirely which for me is unexpected if not really surprising.
 
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Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
12,763
8,959
136
In the interest of accountability I was wrong about this mostly. Chiefly because voters are big mad about prices even though the US had the best recovery by far which has created an anti-incumbency wave globally. They also collectively decided to forget about 2020 entirely which for me is unexpected if not really surprising.

We were all wrong.. very wrong.. mostly about who we are and what we want.

I think the balance has tipped into we want pain and suffering rather than we want to be happy and cared for.

The 2008 no bankers/ ceo's going to prison anger has metastasized and working class people want their pound of flesh and someone to really suffer!
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
28,030
27,434
136
We were all wrong.. very wrong.. mostly about who we are and what we want.

I think the balance has tipped into we want pain and suffering rather than we want to be happy and cared for.

The 2008 no bankers/ ceo's going to prison anger has metastasized and working class people want their pound of flesh and someone to really suffer!
The only people who are not going to suffer will be those who actually are causing the pain of the working class. Ironically the working class is going to suffer the most.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,194
5,747
136
We were all wrong.. very wrong.. mostly about who we are and what we want.

I think the balance has tipped into we want pain and suffering rather than we want to be happy and cared for.

The 2008 no bankers/ ceo's going to prison anger has metastasized and working class people want their pound of flesh and someone to really suffer!
When did it become the responsibility of government to take care of us and make us happy? That implies that at some point were going to need a hookers and blow department.
 
Dec 10, 2005
25,509
8,928
136
So they want to eliminate the Department of Education: I take it they don't realize that this Department owns and is responsible for the billions of dollars in student loans.

It's like they sound a Wheel of Fortune wheel with department names to pick one to demonize.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
49,018
39,130
136
So they want to eliminate the Department of Education: I take it they don't realize that this Department owns and is responsible for the billions of dollars in student loans.

It's like they sound a Wheel of Fortune wheel with department names to pick one to demonize.

They also want to do away with all the basic scientific research the government funds because they think it sounds silly. Especially the kind of research that leads to the foundational discoveries the entire drug development pipeline is perched on.
 
Dec 10, 2005
25,509
8,928
136
When did it become the responsibility of government to take care of us and make us happy? That implies that at some point were going to need a hookers and blow department.
It's the responsibility of the government to do whatever we want the government to do. You know that whole, "by the people, for the people" bit?

It doesn't have to *make* us happy, but it should be creating an environment where it is easy for each of us to pursue our own slice of happiness.
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,194
5,747
136
It's the responsibility of the government to do whatever we want the government to do. You know that whole, "by the people, for the people" bit?

It doesn't have to *make* us happy, but it should be creating an environment where it is easy for each of us to pursue our own slice of happiness.
That's close. We can make the government do whatever we want within the confines of the constitution. The U.S. is a constitutional republic, a narrower category of democracy.
 
Reactions: iRONic
Dec 10, 2005
25,509
8,928
136
That's close. We can make the government do whatever we want within the confines of the constitution. The U.S. is a constitutional republic, a narrower category of democracy.
The Constitution is a piece of paper that will do whatever we want it to do. It only confines power if people believe it confines power.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
86,098
51,666
136
That's close. We can make the government do whatever we want within the confines of the constitution. The U.S. is a constitutional republic, a narrower category of democracy.

This is incorrect. A republic is a form of democracy, but it is not by definition a broader or broader or narrower form of democracy.

The distinguishing characteristic of a republic is that representatives make the laws instead of individuals voting on everything. This has zero to do with how democratic a state is. For example Athens was in large part a pure democracy where citizens voted on everything. However, citizenship was highly restricted so Athens was not actually very democratic at all - far less democratic than the republics that all developed democracies today use.

Basically whenever you hear people say 'we're a republic, not a democracy' that is a red flag that they don't understand how American government (or any government) works.

That says we have the right to pursue life, liberty, and happiness, it doesn't mean the government provides it.
The Constitution explicitly states that the purpose of government is to promote the general welfare.

Being happy and cared for is certainly greater welfare than pain and suffering, and I'm sure you would wholeheartedly agree.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,255
8,300
136
That says we have the right to pursue life, liberty, and happiness, it doesn't mean the government provides it.
When Capitalism is a predatory vulture, making and then picking apart the carcass of the working class....
It stands to reason that someone has to pick up the pieces. To balance the scales so the whole thing doesn't fall apart like a house of cards.

The GAP between wages and productivity these past 40 years would suggest a dire need to course correct. Such as when there is a monopoly and zero competition. The market broke there, and it has also broken here. The action to step in and restore balance becomes crucial to maintaining a healthy system... and a healthy people who don't want to rip each other apart for the meager crumbs offered by employers.

You can want Anarchy all you like, but don't expect to live long under the rule of chaos and exploitation. Of mayhem and murder. Our existing laws, policies, and practices fall short of ensuring the sort of social environment where people can pursue life, liberty, and happiness.

The price of wages, housing and healthcare have all broken over the past decades. They all need fixing. Sooner rather than later or the disaffected will be calling for revolution and people to lose their heads. Ask France about that. That social stress is what makes MAGA tick. It allows Trump to exploit immigrants as scapegoats for people feeling ill and poor and abandoned by Washington. People wouldn't flock to him if they didn't need a solution. To fix a problem. Only they are seeking answers in the wrong direction, the opposite of what would actually help address the root causes.
 
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