Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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jones377

Senior member
May 2, 2004
453
47
91
Ukraine will be receiving more Mirage 2000s earlier than originally thought.

With France phasing these out over the coming years for Rafale there will be quite a few frames available.

It's funny how quickly the french scrambled to provide fighters once Ukraine started receiving F-16's. France is clearly eyeing a post-war future where Ukraine upgrades their fighter fleet. Old F-16 with trainers and trained pilots will make it easy for them to transition to newer F-16's or even F-35 while Mirage-2000 path leads directly to Rafale. They don't want to miss out on that.

Same reason there have been serious talks in Sweden now to provide older C Gripens that Ukraine could easily transition to E Gripens much later on.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
49,018
39,130
136
It's funny how quickly the french scrambled to provide fighters once Ukraine started receiving F-16's. France is clearly eyeing a post-war future where Ukraine upgrades their fighter fleet. Old F-16 with trainers and trained pilots will make it easy for them to transition to newer F-16's or even F-35 while Mirage-2000 path leads directly to Rafale. They don't want to miss out on that.

Same reason there have been serious talks in Sweden now to provide older C Gripens that Ukraine could easily transition to E Gripens much later on.

From Ukraine's perspective it also provides a hedge against the US (Trump) cutting off F-16 parts/transfers.

Lockheed for their part will also exert pressure on the US government to avoid this happening because they are selling a lot of planes in Europe and this could risk their contracts.
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
29,182
41,257
136
From other videos it looks like we sent a whole lot of them.

I just hadn't heard the term Copperhead mentioned in any of the previous aid package rundowns, but I'll admit I didn't examine all of them. Looks like no joy on using drones for the painting, still have to use a chunky LTD on a tripod. Least you've got decent range I suppose. Far as I can tell, the Copperhead didn't show up until the Kursk offensive. Hope that means they have plenty. I think we gave more away to people fighting ISIS than we ever used ourselves.

Cheers to using old dusty stuff to kick orc ass!
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
6,094
1,203
126
We have copper head snakes in our rivers - are they the same sort of copper heads ?
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
29,182
41,257
136
Scratch another Russian Major General. Good riddance to Pavel Klimenko

"Pro-war publics and bloggers were the first to report the death of the 47-year-old. The circumstances of his death are still unknown. Klimenko was accused of organizing a torture camp and taking money from his subordinates in exchange for moving them off the front lines. An investigation by the online publication Astra in August said the torture camp organized by Klimenko was for Russian soldiers on the territory of an abandoned mine in Donetsk. The Russian soldiers sent there were forced to agree to participate in assault groups and had money extorted from them by the officers in charge of the camp, including Klimenko, Astra reported."



Really swell guy sounds like, I'm sure everyone's all broken up about it.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,255
8,300
136
Ukraine needs to be rapidly industrializing their nuclear breakout ability.
On principle I oppose any and all nuclear proliferation.
But if nuclear powers get to ride in and slaughter the unarmed, then becoming armed is the ONLY choice. For the entire planet, everyone and their dog.
I still oppose the idea of it, but the practical need is beyond immediate. To stop Russia, China, and others from ending life. They must be met by a nuclear deterrent.

In our abject failure to protect smaller nations, smaller nations (everyone) must protect themselves. This is the only way.
 

Artorias

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2014
2,157
1,441
136
The silver lining to a reduction in American support is that it hopefully engages the Europeans to finally realize they have to be self sufficient.

EU needs to stand together and I'm not opposed to Germany becoming one of the big boys again militarily.

To long have the EU nations used NATO as a crutch.

Besides the American should probably focus eastward to the Chinese, and Taiwan which has greater global consequences.

Sorry to sound brutal towards Ukrainians, but their not going to risk their neck for you, that much is clear at this point, and is unlikely to change. America and EU could end this war in a week, or Russia escalates. The status quo sucks, but it is what it is.
 
Reactions: Young Grasshopper
Dec 10, 2005
25,510
8,928
136
The silver lining to a reduction in American support is that it hopefully engages the Europeans to finally realize they have to be self sufficient.
Is that a silver lining? Because if they can support themselves more, they'll also be more liable to just tell the US to pound sand when we want their help with something.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
49,018
39,130
136
Is that a silver lining? Because if they can support themselves more, they'll also be more liable to just tell the US to pound sand when we want their help with something.

Yeah if we abandon NATO and do a trade war with the EU they're going to tell us exactly what we can go do with ourselves. The price of influence is engagement.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,777
2,067
136
Ukraine needs to be rapidly industrializing their nuclear breakout ability.
On principle I oppose any and all nuclear proliferation.
But if nuclear powers get to ride in and slaughter the unarmed, then becoming armed is the ONLY choice. For the entire planet, everyone and their dog.
I still oppose the idea of it, but the practical need is beyond immediate. To stop Russia, China, and others from ending life. They must be met by a nuclear deterrent.

In our abject failure to protect smaller nations, smaller nations (everyone) must protect themselves. This is the only way.

It wouldn't be just Ukraine going nuclear. Germany, Poland, Finland, Sweden etc. could also easily develop, build and deploy nuclear weapons if they choose to. US withdraw and disengagement from Europe would force their hand.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
24,281
13,773
136
The silver lining to a reduction in American support is that it hopefully engages the Europeans to finally realize they have to be self sufficient.

EU needs to stand together and I'm not opposed to Germany becoming one of the big boys again militarily.

To long have the EU nations used NATO as a crutch.

Besides the American should probably focus eastward to the Chinese, and Taiwan which has greater global consequences.

Sorry to sound brutal towards Ukrainians, but their not going to risk their neck for you, that much is clear at this point, and is unlikely to change. America and EU could end this war in a week, or Russia escalates. The status quo sucks, but it is what it is.
The same psyops bullshit that got you DJT is also going on throughout Europe. As a deterrent the sun in a can is not the only measure we need. We need a different kind of firewall.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,255
8,300
136
It wouldn't be just Ukraine going nuclear. Germany, Poland, Finland, Sweden etc. could also easily develop, build and deploy nuclear weapons if they choose to. US withdraw and disengagement from Europe would force their hand.
As I said. It must be the entire planet.
Obtain nuclear deterrence, or a big fish will eat the little fish.

NATO with some 1 billion population is letting Russia with 150 million people overrun Europe's second largest country.

That is the lesson of Europe's greatest Genocide since WW2.
No one is safe anymore. No one.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
49,018
39,130
136
It wouldn't be just Ukraine going nuclear. Germany, Poland, Finland, Sweden etc. could also easily develop, build and deploy nuclear weapons if they choose to. US withdraw and disengagement from Europe would force their hand.

Ukraine could end up being an important supplier of delivery systems for such weapons. They have the expertise in cruise and ballistic missile design and would not be a potential future political problem (unlike the Germans/French). They'll just sell stuff for countries who want to roll their own nukes.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,777
2,067
136
Ukraine could end up being an important supplier of delivery systems for such weapons. They have the expertise in cruise and ballistic missile design and would not be a potential future political problem (unlike the Germans/French). They'll just sell stuff for countries who want to roll their own nukes.

Some people don't realize that Ukraine had some home grown very advanced missile systems of it's own.

Ukraine's Home-built Long Range Ballistic Missile
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
49,018
39,130
136
Some people don't realize that Ukraine had some home grown very advanced missile systems of it's own.

Ukraine's Home-built Long Range Ballistic Missile

Yeah the only other people on the continent who make their own ballistic missiles is France. UK gets Tridents from us. Poland will eventually be making KTSSMs once South Korean tech transfer is completed and they can get up and running but for deterrent use going to want something with greater range.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
49,018
39,130
136
DPRK 170mm howitzers seen getting shipped thru Russia. Analysis of the Russian 2S7 203mm fleet indicates that these units are probably mostly out of service now due to barrel shortages and a lack of decent condition vehicles so this is sorta a replacement. Unclear if Russian or DPRK troops will operate them.

https://bsky.app/profile/noelreports.com/post/3law64f6bks2b
 
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