Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,846
5,709
136
I guess Biden and the rest of the Western leaders were so impressed with how Trump handled Covid-19, so now they let him handle a possible nuclear crisis.
 
Reactions: Perknose

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,297
30,322
146
You know I did make one mistake.

I thought this place would be like the pulse of a nation, no matter how small and inconsequential it was. I really did think that; it was so foolish of me.

I was so wrong about that, the US election proved it as such.

You guys are nothing more than a bunch of trolls hiding and muttering insane crap in an underwater cave. Now that I realize it, I find myself laughing at you guys.

As for you guys giving me sermons about how the world works, I can only say: HA HA HA HA 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

I'm sorry, but I can never take you guys seriously ever again.

that's good, because adults aren't really interested in the frothing rants of a fascist rapist like yourself.
 
Reactions: nickqt

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,297
30,322
146
Half your heros are sure to be on Diddy's list and the other half are on Epstein's list, so you and your friends are supporting pedophiles.

Child Mutilators - This one needs no explanation. It is obvious as day.

Genocide Supporters - The worst kind of atrocities are being committed by Pakistan and now Bangladesh against religious minorities in their soil. But you and your friends closed your eyes and ears to it, saying it was none of your business; one of your guys here even gave a perverted twist to the fact of minority women being kidnapped in Pakistan by whitewashing it as 'brides for the landlord's son.' So yes, you are a supporter of rape, genocide and worse.

Now I understand slander is second nature to liberals and leftists, but the game sucks because anyone else can play it too. So STFU with the preaching and go cry in a corner.

look at all the projection from this very rapey fascist. You're so fucking transparent.
 
Reactions: nickqt

repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
4,772
3,852
136
As objective and truth seeking as you are in the Elmo thread you are doing a 180 degree Crazy Ivan in this one. Are you suffering from multiple personality disorder cause you're fucking unhinged here.
You’re thinking of the other guy who starts with Br. The one you’re quoting is always deranged and ignore list worthy.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
49,021
39,137
136
2 months. Ukraine gets restricted long distance strike ability for 2 months (with American weapons). Oy vey.

Biden, you better flood these people with long sticks. Yesterday. Every ATACMS we own pretty much, and auto greenlight the sale of them from allies to Ukraine if warranted. SK's got some, so do UAE and Turkey.

C'mon Joe, you need to let the AFU go nuts! Let Zelenskyy send orcs everywhere to HIMARS/JASSM hell, not just in Kursk.


Edit: corrected. Also, wave goodbye to those NKs folks

The US withholding both cruise and ballistic missiles from Ukraine has had the effect of making Ukraine prioritize domestic production of such systems. Which long term is a more sustainable path for them as the systems will not be limited to US targeting approval. All decisions have consequences.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,777
2,067
136
Not that this would happen but somebody ought to remind Trump he’s got the most powerful military in the world leading the most powerful military alliance in the world if he doesn’t dump it.

Putin staying in charge is entirely based on Trump remaining deferential to him because if he doesn’t and supplies Ukraine with all the weapons it wants Russia loses and Putin likely does too. (It’s kind of crazy to think someone would bet their political future on Trump following through on a deal)

How does that hurt Trump. It doesn’t. He won the election he doesn’t need further Russian help.

Russian Money? He’s president. I’m sure billions of kick backs from a greatful military industrial complex would be on the table.

Kompromat? His base doesn’t care nor would they believe it and anything he’s done or does is effectively outside of judicial review anyway.

If he did this he could say Biden wimped out by refusing to give all the weapons, European leaders would eat crow because he supported NATO and Ukraine and he’d remove Putins influence over him. He could easily make deals beneficial to him with whomever replaces Putin.

Turnp looks strong and any negatives with the base could easily be propaganda’d over.

I’m not seeing the downside for him.

Trump doesn't like losing and the last 2+ years the Biden administration has decided that their strategy in Ukraine was to give enough weapons to them not to lose but not enough to win.

Foreign officials and advisers who have spoken with Ukraine’s leadership say Kyiv is nervous about Trump but feared that a Harris administration would have continued a slow suffocation. Trump at least brings uncertainty, including to Moscow, which Kyiv feels it can exploit.

I think that Trump is going to find that Russia is not agreeable to any reasonable peace deal and he will have to use force which is the only language that Russia understands.

Why does the Biden Administration always like to advertise to Russia when we they give Ukraine new weapon options? The first time that Russia found out that Ukraine was allowed to hit inside Russia with ATACMS should have been when their shit started to blow up.
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
6,094
1,203
126
I think that Trump is going to find that Russia is not agreeable to any reasonable peace deal and he will have to use force which is the only language that Russia understands.
the problem is what does Trump find unreasonable? I mean after all he believes Russian over American intelligence; one has to presume if Russia say it will be be (or lead to) peace trump might accept that at face value even if we know it is a stalling action while Russia rearms.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,777
2,067
136
the problem is what does Trump find unreasonable? I mean after all he believes Russian over American intelligence; one has to presume if Russia say it will be be (or lead to) peace trump might accept that at face value even if we know it is a stalling action while Russia rearms.

I doubt that Trump is going to insist on a peace deal that doesn't involve Ukraine security guarantees. It might involve European troops but already Trump appears to be angling towards something with European boots on the ground in a DMZ. I am going to reserve judgement until we see what comes out. However we have to admit the last 2+ years under Biden hasn't been favorable to Ukraine winning this conflict.
 
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GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,219
7,742
136
yeah I'm sure the first thing Putin is thinking is let's have NATO in Ukraine..... He will only accept Ukraine letting him have what he's taken and not allowing anything that would keep him from advancing again.

- Yeah, the whole point of this conflict is keeping Ukraine out of NATO and reincorporating it into Rus' sphere of influence.

If Trump's plan involves essentially projecting a NATO shield over Ukraine then WTF was Russia even fighting for? No way they would agree to that arrangement.

Also, NATO troops occupying a country that isn't even a member of NATO... what?

I expect a much shittier deal from Trump, one where Ukraine is wholly and unambiguously cast under the wheels of a bus.

That said, I doubt Ukraine is going to just take that lying down. Without the US regulating we might see some pretty wild shit before UKR collapses. Dirty Bomb in Moscow?
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,256
8,300
136
MAGA news is 24/7 beating the fearmongering drum beat over the US giving Ukraine long range permission.
They want a riotous mob of Americans opposing Ukraine and supporting Russia.

Cannot for one second believe Trump will do anything but fluff Putin.
Not when his media is 100% loyal to Russia.
 
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Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,821
2,607
136
It's an absolute fantasy Trump will give Putin any sort of resistance or push back, much less stand up to him. Remember that Trump is deeply indebted to Putin. Due to his litigious nature (he actually sued banks claiming it was their fault for lending money to him-money that he asked for) and serial lying Trump was persona non grata and no US based lender would deal with Trump. He would have been wiped out in the dot com bust era but for the Russians bailing him out. Trump will obey any marching orders Putin gives him. Biden was smart to give the permission now. If Putin doesn't come through on his empty threats against the US and NATO in the next two plus months even Trump is going to have a tough job claiming he has no alternative but to cave in.

OTOH there is a lot Trump will be able to, and will do, to sabotage Ukraine. Elmo will cut them off his satellites, maybe immediately. After inauguration the GOP won't authorize another dime for Ukraine unless there is overwhelming pressure from defense contractors (after all, there are a lot of high paying jobs at stake). Ukraine should push as hard as possible on Putin and his NK allies now to put them in the best position possible.
 
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RnR_au

Platinum Member
Jun 6, 2021
2,113
5,097
106
OTOH there is a lot Trump will be able to, and will do, to sabotage Ukraine. Elmo will cut them off his satellites, maybe immediately.
Won't work. If the Russians can use Starlink, the Ukrainians can as well. Atm if you source Starlink terminals in Europe you can use them anywhere for about 3 months which is when Starlink disconnects them for being outside they supposed geoboundary.

The worst Trump can do to Ukraine are two-fold.
  1. Stop all equipment deliveries to Ukraine and ban Euro allies from shipping American tech to Ukraine... ie F16's.
  2. Unfreeze Russian assets.
However either of these will just prolong the war, not finish the war quickly. Trump doesn't want to look ineffective right out of the gate, so he has a big task ahead of him. I would say an impossible task if the Ukrainian's dig in and refuse to settle with Russia without an iron clad NATO guarantee.
 
May 11, 2008
20,648
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Since i know that the whole war in Ukraine has been a dirty thing that caused the lives of many innocent people in the Ukraine...
I have been refraining from posting in this thread.
This short summing of information comes from history books, documentaries and news articles i have seen over the years.
But for once i will gather what i know and learned over the years in a short post :

just after WW1 ,start of exploiting gas fields in Russia and Ukraine but as USSR at the time.

WW2 , pausing of building gas pipelins through Ukraine through countries in Eastern Europe.

After WW2, during 1950s , restarting of building gas pipelines to Eastern Europe starts again, by the USSR.

During 1970s, countries in Western Europe funded the USSR to increase exploiting gasfields in Russia and Ukraine and extend to Western Europe countries.

Later on, Ukraine switched between being a gas exporter through a country that mainly functions as a gas transit.

After the fall of the wall in Germany around 1989, many things changed over the years. Russia had for example Gazprom as gas and oil industry company.

Ukraine has many privately held gas industry companies and Burisma holdings is one of those. Hunter biden used to be in the board of directors at least during year 2016.
I do not know if that still is the case and how long.
Many of those privately held gas industry companies in the Ukraine have connections with powerful foreign non Ukrainian companies or powerful political people, like for example the USA or the Middle East.

Gazprom did not like this, cause now, there is no "free liberal" gasmarket, but everything becomes political again : Russia against part of the USA and the main gas and oil suppliers from the middle east.
The Nordstream and other projects are project that Russia, and mainly Gazprom can be a fully independent gas and oil supplier without being dependent on the Ukraine.

But then during these same years, also came the view of many so called "Western" advisors that "the iron curtain" should be restored.

Then we have the innercountry issues of Ukraine over the years, political parties with different views.
People who want to belong to Russia and people who have different ideologies and different religions.

Also, i remember vagely a news article, at least 20 years ago, about the blocking of gas supplied from Russia through the extensive pipeline fields inside Ukraine during a winter, that left many Eastern Europe countries without much needed gas for at least heating.

Besides all this :
An articel at NewYork Times, about Hunter Biden, the son of Joe Biden who was vice president of the time while Barack Obama was president and his connection with Burisma holdings.
Donald Trump was the next president. After Donald Trump, Joe Biden was the next president, who came into office around 2021 if i remember correctly.
small excerpt from text :
"
Hunter Biden sought assistance from the U.S. government for a potentially lucrative energy project in Italy while his father was vice president, according to newly released records and interviews.
The records, which the Biden administration had withheld for years, indicate that Hunter Biden wrote at least one letter to the U.S. ambassador to Italy in 2016 seeking assistance for the Ukrainian gas company Burisma, where he was a board member.
Embassy officials appear to have been uneasy with the request from the son of the sitting vice president on behalf of a foreign company.
“I want to be careful about promising too much,” wrote a Commerce Department official based in the U.S. Embassy in Rome who was tasked with responding.
“This is a Ukrainian company and, purely to protect ourselves, U.S.G. should not be actively advocating with the government of Italy without the company going through the D.O.C. Advocacy Center,” the official wrote. Those acronyms refer to the United States government and a Department of Commerce program that supports American companies that seek business with foreign governments.
"


We have seen this all before...
Just think and remember the last large wars, the last 35 years...

It is too big for us.



Intermezzo about the Netherlands :
Minister Jetten who is especially assigned as minister of Energy and Climate...
That same minister Jetten is assigned to help transit the Netherlands into a green country, start to buy USA shale gas and Middle Eastern shale gas.
Which is kind of a big frown of the eyebrows for many people cause the Dutch people are forced to spend a lot of money to become "green". This happened at least one time and happened during the year 2022.
Shale gas is extracted through hydraulic fracturing which is very hazardous for the environment because of the used poisonous chemicals.

The netherlands, who has a lot of issues with the gasfields in Groningen because the drilling has caused ground tremors through collapsing empty gas pockets in the Earth crust.
This causes for small local earthquakes to happen, strong enough to damage houses and buildings.
The Netherlands during this time has been selling gas to the Ukraine.
While Ukraine belongs or belonged to the top 5 of countries with the largest gas reserves in the world according to experts in the oil and gas industry.
End Intermezzo.
 
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Reactions: AG907

AG907

Banned
Nov 14, 2024
184
63
56
I guess Biden and the rest of the Western leaders were so impressed with how Trump handled Covid-19, so now they let him handle a possible nuclear crisis.
Remember that time Russia invaded Ukraine while Trump was President. Me neither.


Meanwhile ....

 

AG907

Banned
Nov 14, 2024
184
63
56
However either of these will just prolong the war, not finish the war quickly. Trump doesn't want to look ineffective right out of the gate, so he has a big task ahead of him. I would say an impossible task if the Ukrainian's dig in and refuse to settle with Russia without an iron clad NATO guarantee.
How long do you think the current govt. in Kyiv will last if the US cuts off Ukraine? I'm guessing 90 - 120 days tops. Zelensky either comes to the negotiating table or he will be toast.
 

RnR_au

Platinum Member
Jun 6, 2021
2,113
5,097
106
How long do you think the current govt. in Kyiv will last if the US cuts off Ukraine? I'm guessing 90 - 120 days tops. Zelensky either comes to the negotiating table or he will be toast.
This is long enough. By then, Ukraine will out produce Russia's military. Many factories in partnership with the Europeans are currently being built or have been built. The GDP of Russia is only that of Italy on a good day. The Baltic nations with Poland can easily rival Russia on a GDP basis. By 2025, Europe don't really need the USA to manage Russia. Russia won't last beyond 2025. Its economy is already on shaky grounds, and they don't have a Europe support them like Ukraine does.

I mean the Ruble is already farked. The Russian Reserve Bank is out of levers and Ukraine has only given Russia a small taste of whats to come when more and more of Russia's oil infrastructure comes into range with their domestic long range missile production.



Meanwhile Boris says the right words yet again when it comes to Ukraine.
 

AG907

Banned
Nov 14, 2024
184
63
56
This is long enough. By then, Ukraine will out produce Russia's military. Many factories are currently being built or have been built. The GDP of Russia is only that of Italy on a good day. The Baltic nations with Poland can easily rival Russia on a GDP basis. By 2025, Europe don't really need the USA to manage Russia. Russia won't last beyond 2025. Its economy is already on shaky grounds, and they don't have a Europe support them.

I mean the Ruble is already farked. The Russian Reserve Bank is out of levers and Ukraine has only given Russia a small taste of whats to come when more and more of Russia's oil infrastructure comes into range with their domestic long range missile production.

View attachment 111830

Meanwhile Boris says the right words yet again when it comes to Ukraine.
Ukraine is nothing without foreign aid. Russia has a population of more than 100m vs Ukraine and is making bank atm selling its oil & gas to China. The best Ukraine can hope for is that the EU takes the place of the US and gives them money and arms and knowing how the EU rolls I don't see that happening. The majority of the EU countries don't even pay their fare share to NATO let alone give up money to a non EU country ... unless its about climate change.
 
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