Biggest Democratic mistake in the last 4 years: letting Biden steamroll a primary.

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Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
12,766
8,959
136
Shit hit the fan. Better get out before the dear leader shuts down the borders like every other dictator does.

I thought he wanted people to get out.

And AFAIK it's harder to get through immigration into JFK airport than it is to get out. They don't even stamp passports of those leaving.. never have.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,392
10,999
136
What really did Biden do though, specifically, that directly and immediately benefited middle class working americans? He waited too long to act on inflation, and did nothing really about the border. The infrastructure bill was needed, and provided some jobs, but implementation has been sketchy, and correctly or not, I think a lot of people think it is just more govt pork barrel spending. The "Inflation Reduction Act" really wasnt. It provided a lot of needed long term climate benefits, but little if any short term relief. There were a few direct benefits in capping prescription drug costs, but that really is about it.
This is the problem, real solutions are hard and take time.

The Biden administration did specifically help many unions negotiate better deals with shorter strikes. Passed numerous policies that will increase manufacturing in the US. The FTC also blocked many large mergers and actually started going after monopolies. Plus a lot more. He also managed to arrest inflation without causing a recession.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
12,766
8,959
136
I think the biggest take away will be..

All the good stuff that the dems did..
- Pause on college debt payments
- Child tax credits
- ACA protections
- Internet $30 discounts

All that stuff expired under Biden!

They should have known the Republicans would run roadblocks in extending that stuff.. but how come the Bush Tax Cuts were extended under Obama? How come the Trump tax cuts for billionaires were extended under Biden?

We've been had! No wonder people are pissed and hate the system.. it doesn't work!
 

ondma

Diamond Member
Mar 18, 2018
3,124
1,597
136
I think the biggest take away will be..

All the good stuff that the dems did..
- Pause on college debt payments
- Child tax credits
- ACA protections
- Internet $30 discounts

All that stuff expired under Biden!

They should have known the Republicans would run roadblocks in extending that stuff.. but how come the Bush Tax Cuts were extended under Obama? How come the Trump tax cuts for billionaires were extended under Biden?

We've been had! No wonder people are pissed and hate the system.. it doesn't work!
If I recall correctly, the Trump tax cuts were set to begin expiring at the end of 2025, so technically they were not "extended" under Biden. They simply remained in effect. I do wish Harris had proposed across the board middle class income tax cuts instead of more directed benefits like increased child credits and 25k subsidy for first time homebuyers. The homebuyer credit will not help those who are hurting worst. They are living paycheck to paycheck, have little or no savings or disposable income, have a lot of credit card debt and low credit scores. They are not going to be able to qualify to buy a house (or if they qualified under relaxed standards, the mortgage rate would be high, with a high chance of default). Also, how about a little help for single people and couples without children? They have been hit hard by inflation too, and have been subsidizing people with kids seemingly forever already.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,805
8,322
136
If I recall correctly, the Trump tax cuts were set to begin expiring at the end of 2025, so technically they were not "extended" under Biden. They simply remained in effect. I do wish Harris had proposed across the board middle class income tax cuts instead of more directed benefits like increased child credits and 25k subsidy for first time homebuyers. The homebuyer credit will not help those who are hurting worst. They are living paycheck to paycheck, have little or no savings or disposable income, have a lot of credit card debt and low credit scores. They are not going to be able to qualify to buy a house (or if they qualified under relaxed standards, the mortgage rate would be high, with a high chance of default). Also, how about a little help for single people and couples without children? They have been hit hard by inflation too, and have been subsidizing people with kids seemingly forever already.
Cut the tax rate to 0% for anyone making under $150,000 in earned income and call it a day.

Tax credits are dogshit tier compared to not having to pay Federal Income Tax on day 1-365. It's literal money in people's pockets.
 
Reactions: conspireagainst

ondma

Diamond Member
Mar 18, 2018
3,124
1,597
136
Cut the tax rate to 0% for anyone making under $150,000 in earned income and call it a day.

Tax credits are dogshit tier compared to not having to pay Federal Income Tax on day 1-365. It's literal money in people's pockets.
Cutting the rate to 0 might be a bit extreme, but I totally agree with you in principle of a significant across the board tax cut for low and middle income brackets. The dems just cant seem to help themselves though. They just can resist taking from one demographic to subsidize another. And the Reps do it to, they just want to help corporations and the rich, while the Dems want to help the "less fortunate". Middle income taxpayers, especially those without children in the household, are stuck in the middle and end up getting screwed either way.
 
Reactions: ivwshane

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
12,185
3,108
136
Cutting the rate to 0 might be a bit extreme, but I totally agree with you in principle of a significant across the board tax cut for low and middle income brackets. The dems just cant seem to help themselves though. They just can resist taking from one demographic to subsidize another. And the Reps do it to, they just want to help corporations and the rich, while the Dems want to help the "less fortunate". Middle income taxpayers, especially those without children in the household, are stuck in the middle and end up getting screwed either way.
Ahh yes, wanting to help the "less fortunate" is exactly the same thing as tax cuts for billionaires and corporations that ruin the federal budget.

#BothSides

Look, you make some fair points and not everybody can be "happy" with income "redistribution" (well, the northern Europeans seem pretty fucking happy). But painting a broad brush that Dems have abandoned the middle class is a horseshit (R) talking point.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
12,766
8,959
136
Exhibit B:


Arrest 8 times.. no jail for migrants


3 people killed just going about their business by a person that should have been behind bars


This isn't fox news.. this is the most liberal media outlet in NYC!

We need to seriously fix this shit before the next election or we'll be like Appalachia..

 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,394
11,412
136
Exhibit B:


Arrest 8 times.. no jail for migrants


3 people killed just going about their business by a person that should have been behind bars


This isn't fox news.. this is the most liberal media outlet in NYC!

We need to seriously fix this shit before the next election or we'll be like Appalachia..

View attachment 111903
what did 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012, and 2016 look like?

the comparison insinuates that this shift happened overnight and 2024 is anomalous. examining the intervening years would give a lot more information. looking at shifts in the 2008-2016 elections would be particularly enlightening.
 
Reactions: zinfamous

gothuevos

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2010
2,704
2,117
136
Exhibit B:


Arrest 8 times.. no jail for migrants


3 people killed just going about their business by a person that should have been behind bars


This isn't fox news.. this is the most liberal media outlet in NYC!

We need to seriously fix this shit before the next election or we'll be like Appalachia..

View attachment 111903

This is compounded by the fact that it is anticipated that by 2030 (?), some blue states like CA and IL will lose EC votes, while TX and FL will gain some. Due to movement OUT of blue states. I'll have to find the article, but it was something like the GOP will gain about 12 EC votes just from this migration. So winning the blue wall alone won't be enough for 270.

Well done Dems, well fucking done. I honestly don't know if they'll win another national election at this point. We haven't even seen whatever new laws the GOP will unveil to enshrine their power further. It might be a moot point, the deck is so stacked against Dems regardless.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
12,766
8,959
136
what did 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012, and 2016 look like?

the comparison insinuates that this shift happened overnight and 2024 is anomalous. examining the intervening years would give a lot more information. looking at shifts in the 2008-2016 elections would be particularly enlightening.

I think the common theme is they didn't feel like they were being heard and the Republicans have basically convinced them the system doesn't work and needs to be completely destroyed and rebuilt from the ground up..







That's right.. someone I liked as a race card driver is fully onboard with wrecking it all. I know she'll be disappointed but even more disappointing is how she got here.. how America got here..

Maybe Pelosi and Clinton got it wrong??
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,394
11,412
136
I think the common theme is they didn't feel like they were being heard and the Republicans have basically convinced them the system doesn't work and needs to be completely destroyed and rebuilt from the ground up..

View attachment 111906

View attachment 111907

View attachment 111908

That's right.. someone I liked as a race card driver is fully onboard with wrecking it all. I know she'll be disappointed but even more disappointing is how she got here.. how America got here..

Maybe Pelosi and Clinton got it wrong??
You do realize there was a significant backlash to Obama being elected right? People got pissy cause America elected a black man. That is what I'm trying to say you need to account for.
 
Reactions: zinfamous

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
12,766
8,959
136
You do realize there was a significant backlash to Obama being elected right? People got pissy cause America elected a black man. That is what I'm trying you say you need to account for.

Would explain why Kam didn't have a chance in hell.
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,125
2,713
136
Exhibit B:


Arrest 8 times.. no jail for migrants


3 people killed just going about their business by a person that should have been behind bars


This isn't fox news.. this is the most liberal media outlet in NYC!

We need to seriously fix this shit before the next election or we'll be like Appalachia..

View attachment 111903
LOL! Dude, this is manipulation. If you where being honest, you would also be looking at all incidents, including US citizens. If you did that, you would realize that they are 3 times worse per capita. Which would make it clear that being documentented or undocumented, immigrants/migrants has no relevance to such things happening, and you are only using it to support and fuel your hate for those groups of people. Heck documented immigrants are between undocumented and US citizens in such incidents. Why are you not going after US citizens since they are the largest offenders? Why are you only focused on "illegal" immigrants and migrants? Is it because it does't fit your narrative to hate on those groups?
 
Reactions: Indus
Dec 10, 2005
25,512
8,930
136
You do realize there was a significant backlash to Obama being elected right? People got pissy cause America elected a black man. That is what I'm trying to say you need to account for.
People have also just been stewing their brains in right wing propaganda in the form of Fox News and all adjacent holdings. We're just seeing the culmination of what happens when some large group of people choose to live in some sort of altered reality, propelled by grifters and evil people looking to fleece and harm.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
12,766
8,959
136
LOL! Dude, this is manipulation. If you where being honest, you would also be looking at all incidents, including US citizens. If you did that, you would realize that they are 3 times worse per capita. Which would make it clear that being documentented or undocumented, immigrants/migrants has no relevance to such things happening, and you are only using it to support and fuel your hate for those groups of people. Heck documented immigrants are between undocumented and US citizens in such incidents. Why are you not going after US citizens since they are the largest offenders? Why are you only focused on "illegal" immigrants and migrants? Is it because it does't fit your narrative to hate on those groups?

I'm not arguing against you or even the facts. I'm the "alarmist" remember??

What I have been saying is when that's the left wing feed.. it's pissing people off! Just imagine how bad the right wing ny post or fox will be.

People down here are convinced that it's a major problem and they have made their minds up on crime and migrants to the point arguing facts and showing bar graphs is like a comedy show and everyone just zones out. Infact even the legal migrants are pro Trump.

You know how Batman says at the end of the Dark knight.. sometimes truth isn't good enough.. sometimes people need their faith rewarded?? Shit is that bad!
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
12,766
8,959
136
This is compounded by the fact that it is anticipated that by 2030 (?), some blue states like CA and IL will lose EC votes, while TX and FL will gain some. Due to movement OUT of blue states. I'll have to find the article, but it was something like the GOP will gain about 12 EC votes just from this migration. So winning the blue wall alone won't be enough for 270.

Well done Dems, well fucking done. I honestly don't know if they'll win another national election at this point. We haven't even seen whatever new laws the GOP will unveil to enshrine their power further. It might be a moot point, the deck is so stacked against Dems regardless.

I think the blue wall is gone for a generation and then some except for someone like Jon Stewart who's an outsider and can tell it how it is.

Remember how we made fun of the 2016 clown car of Republicans.. that's how bad it will for 2028 dem candidates - people want an outsider.

Basically going forward Dems will have to enact a heartland strategy and start appealing to NC, KS, AZ, GA etc. Dems tried diversity and identity politics twice and it backfired!
 

gothuevos

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2010
2,704
2,117
136
People have also just been stewing their brains in right wing propaganda in the form of Fox News and all adjacent holdings. We're just seeing the culmination of what happens when some large group of people choose to live in some sort of altered reality, propelled by grifters and evil people looking to fleece and harm.
Well nothing is being done to combat it or turn people away from it, so what makes you think anything will change moving forward?

This is one of many reasons why the Democratic party is finished.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,394
11,412
136
I think the blue wall is gone for a generation and then some except for someone like Jon Stewart who's an outsider and can tell it how it is.

Remember how we made fun of the 2016 clown car of Republicans.. that's how bad it will for 2028 dem candidates - people want an outsider.

Basically going forward Dems will have to enact a heartland strategy and start appealing to NC, KS, AZ, GA etc. Dems tried diversity and identity politics twice and it backfired!
I think AOC would do just fine. She's anti corporate overlords and pro helping people.
 
Dec 10, 2005
25,512
8,930
136
Well nothing is being done to combat it or turn people away from it, so what makes you think anything will change moving forward?

This is one of many reasons why the Democratic party is finished.
It's not just on a single political party to carry the message. The whole message transmitting ecosystem is broken thanks to a "both sides" false-balance driving non-Fox media.
 
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