RDC Semiconductor's x86-64 thread.

NostaSeronx · Nov 14, 2024

Kept searching for stuff and got jump scared.

https://www.rdc.com.tw/resource/files/ir/investor/法人簡報-20231213_英文版.pdf

https://www.rdc.com.tw/resource/files/ir/investor/1130425線上法說會英文簡報檔.pdf

The patents talked about:

US11126217B1 - Integrated circuit with mixed circuitry structure of static combinational circuit and dynamic combinational circuit and designing method thereof - Google Patents

An integrated circuit includes a first stage and a second stage. The first stage receives a previous stage output data and a clock signal and generates a first output data. The second stage receives the first output data and the clock signal. The first stage includes a first flip-flop circuit, a...

patents.google.com

US11144697B1 - Processing method for applying analog dynamic circuit to digital testing tool - Google Patents

A processing method for applying an analog dynamic circuit to a digital testing tool includes the following steps. In a step (a), a transistor-level analog dynamic circuit is provided. In a step (b), plural equivalent models are designed according to operations of plural transistors in the...

patents.google.com

Timeline on their website (https://www.rdc.com.tw) :
December 2019 - Successfully developed and verified the highspeed I/O technology for the advanced 12nm process of semiconductor wafers,laying a solid foundation for future chiplet architecture.
September 2021 - Completed the tape out of a quadcore highperformance processor on the 12nm advanced process technology.
June 2022 - Completed the validation of a 12nm quadcore highspeed processor with a power consumption lower than 5 watts.

However, no idea why they didn't launch the above. Unless they really want to do the 22nm thing with "Dynamic Domino Circuit for High Speed Operation."

So, started this thread to have someone at least watch this. Specifically for the future opportunity list:
"1. 64-bit 4 cores: Industrial Automation/IPC/PC,NB
2. 64-bit 16 cores: Industrial Automation/IPC/PC,NB,AIPC
3. 64-bit 128 cores: edge server/data center/AI server"

DZero · Nov 15, 2024

Interesting...

They want to break that trend!

Also uses only Linux for now:

Interesting...

This is interesting... how a Taiwanese company tries to work with China?

NostaSeronx · Nov 15, 2024

DZero said:
Also uses only Linux for now: View attachment 111622

They are targeting Windows as well.

DZero said:
This is interesting... how a Taiwanese company tries to work with China?

The major market is China for them. As Zhaoxin/VIA decided to not to keep TDPs down.
KX-7000/ZX-F = ~100W TDP
KX-6000/ZX-E = ~70W TDP
KX-5000/ZX-D = ~35W TDP
ZX-C = ~35W TDP

AMD isn't bothering with the low-end. Intel is over-priced for that market.

~~~~~ Will not compete with other ASIC companies that license their products ~~~~
"Company’s resources are limited; We are cooperative partners
with ASIC company, not competitive relationship.
E.g., ARM’s cooperative business model with ASIC companies."

So, maybe there will customers on the license-side. It only needs to be faster than A55.

igor_kavinski · Nov 17, 2024

How can they target x86 without a license? Is VIA allowed to license their "x86 license" to other parties?

Tuna-Fish · Nov 17, 2024

igor_kavinski said:
How can they target x86 without a license? Is VIA allowed to license their "x86 license" to other parties?

Their target market is China, as a hedge against sanctions. The Chinese government isn't going to care about US IP in such situations.

NostaSeronx · Nov 17, 2024

igor_kavinski said:
How can they target x86 without a license? Is VIA allowed to license their "x86 license" to other parties?

The license allows one to use non-expired patents. Since, the patents are expired RDC can produce x86/AMD64 designs. We have to wait and see if they reveal their own FPU/SIMD extension or it is literally just AMD64+SSE2 (both expired).

Edit: Royalties covers the active/non-expired patent usage. So, RDC doesn't need to pay royalties either.

For example, DM&P's Vortex86DX3 is actually RDC's Emkore™ DS. So, RDC is already licensing out their cores since 2015.

I found that 32-bit 2021 part:

I assume R33260 will be the 32-core part. If the R30460 equals quad-core. So, the best logical leap is that it has SSSE3 support in its 64-bit version.

Tuna-Fish said:
Their target market is China, as a hedge against sanctions. The Chinese government isn't going to care about US IP in such situations.

China is the primary market. The non-primary markets will still get shipped to are Southeast Asia, Europe, Americas.

"AMD x86 CPU SoC is SONY & Microsoft Gaming’s ASIC platform" where the RDC x86 64-bit Gaming SoC direction might be global. Where the benchmark for hobby gaming is going to be the Playdate with good HW/SW collaboration.

DZero · Nov 19, 2024

igor_kavinski said:
How can they target x86 without a license? Is VIA allowed to license their "x86 license" to other parties?

As far I know there are more x86 license users besides AMD, Intel and VIA.

Steltek · Nov 19, 2024

DZero said:
As far I know there are more x86 license users besides AMD, Intel and VIA.

I think one of them is DM&P Electronics, another is STMicroelectronics, and of course there is IBM.

Via's license can be traced all the way back through a ton of acquisitions to Cyrix (who reverse-engineered X86, got sued by Intel many times and won, then sued Intel over Pentium Pro and won again, and eventually ended up netting an X86 cross-license agreement from Intel for their trouble in settlement of all the lawsuits. National Semiconductor sold most of their IP to VIA, and later the rest to AMD).

DavidC1 · Nov 20, 2024

It would be interesting to see architectures that are rethought and redone for the old nodes. Can they make a better Pentium Pro? A better Athlon? A better Atom?

igor_kavinski · Nov 20, 2024

DavidC1 said:
It would be interesting to see architectures that are rethought and redone for the old nodes. Can they make a better Pentium Pro? A better Athlon? A better Atom?

They should just do 10 GHz P4, minus the problems that made it perform like a wet rat.

Isn't Kaveri like a better Athlon?

lightmanek · Nov 20, 2024

igor_kavinski said:
They should just do 10 GHz P4, minus the problems that made it perform like a wet rat.

Isn't Kaveri like a better Athlon?

No, Kaveri is based on Bulldozer arch, Athlon (depends if just Athlon, XP, 64) can be based around K7 or K8 arch.

DavidC1 · Thursday at 7:00 PM

igor_kavinski said:
They should just do 10 GHz P4, minus the problems that made it perform like a wet rat.

Isn't Kaveri like a better Athlon?

No I'm saying it should be redone on older processes.

Remake 0.18u processors. Remake 65nm processors. They must have learned a way to do better architecturally right? 65nm was Core 2, what else can they do with 65nm now?

RTX · Friday at 10:58 AM

The old stuff could be redesigned for lower power via AI/ML.

DavidC1 · Friday at 11:07 PM

DZero said:
Interesting...
View attachment 111621

They want to break that trend!

It is.

While most of us enthusiasts ignored Centaur chips, we did experiment for a bit and it was a usable chip, and particularly because it was affordable.

Glen Henry's team pitched an idea to investors, that they needed 2 years, 10 million dollars, and for them to be "left alone" to deliver an x86 chip, a feat thought to be impossible at the time. Yet they did. Two major investors listened to them. First IDT, and second Via.

They did so because Henry was working for IBM at the time, and the cheapest chip from Intel was $160, after substantial discounts. He realized Intel CPU and Microsoft OS were the primary limiters on cheaper computers. Centaur chips were able to be priced at $30-40.

Out of the 82 total employees, only 35 were actually involved in the CPU architecture team. An extremely impressive result.

Kosusko · 2024-11-26T18:20:41-0500

moinmoin · 2024-11-27T03:23:33-0500

There is a third video:

Wonder if the full doc is available anywhere?

igor_kavinski · 2024-11-27T07:44:13-0500

Impressions of someone who watched the documentary: http://zingaburga.com/2015/12/rise-of-the-centaur-2015-documentary/

Company's reddit AMA:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/ep0lf4/x86_cpu_design_house_centaur_technology_will_host

RDC Semiconductor's x86-64 thread.

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member

US11126217B1 - Integrated circuit with mixed circuitry structure of static combinational circuit and dynamic combinational circuit and designing method thereof - Google Patents

US11144697B1 - Processing method for applying analog dynamic circuit to digital testing tool - Google Patents

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