Question Resonance

hurricane501 · Nov 14, 2024

Hi,

I really need help with this as its driving me CRAZY!

I have the below parts;

Corsair iCUE H150i ELITE CAPELLIX XT 360mm AiO Liquid CPU Cooler in Black
Corsair iCUE 5000D RGB AIRFLOW Gaming Case - Black

Both these parts have insane resonance within the case... ive set custom fan profiles from 500 static rpm to each fan all way up and i cant stop this noise...

Its 100% these fans as i can set zero RPM and the case is dead silent.

I cant even drown out this noise with over ear headsets as its resonance sound, it just comes through no matter what i do, and i obv cant leave them at zero or the CPU will cook.

Does anyone have any tips at all to stop the resonance?

Thanks!

In2Photos · Nov 14, 2024

Where is the AIO installed, front, side, or top? Do you have the dust filter installed? Have you tried without the dust filter?

WelshBloke · Nov 14, 2024

If the case is resonating you could just stick some sound dampening foam in there. It comes in big sticky sheets that you cut to size and stick on the flat areas of the case.

hurricane501 · Nov 14, 2024

In2Photos said:
Where is the AIO installed, front, side, or top? Do you have the dust filter installed? Have you tried without the dust filter?

Top, the case has built in rubber dust filters its not them its 100% the top fans linked to the rad ive just did another test and basically narrowed it down to them, the fans even have rubber around the screws but it obv doesnt work.

hurricane501 · Nov 14, 2024

WelshBloke said:
If the case is resonating you could just stick some sound dampening foam in there. It comes in big sticky sheets that you cut to size and stick on the flat areas of the case.

Its the fans on the rads thats causing the resonation i cant see anything moving so im not sure how its doing this as everything is pretty tight but it must be wobbling somewhere, im not putting any foam in this case lol.

WelshBloke · Nov 14, 2024

hurricane501 said:
Its the fans on the rads thats causing the resonation i cant see anything moving so im not sure how its doing this as everything is pretty tight but it must be wobbling somewhere, im not putting any foam in this case lol.

You could try putting a rubber gasket between the rad and the case.
Basically you want to either stop the vibration at source (by changing the fans) or isolating that vibration and stopping it getting amplified by the case or stopping the case resonating.

In2Photos · Nov 14, 2024

Are the fans oriented so they are pushing air through the rad? Is there any gap between the fans and rad? Is it resonance from vibration or air flow? It shouldn't be vibration on those fans, they are pretty expensive. Maybe one of them is faulty? Can you try and isolate each fan to see if it is one fan or a combination of the three?

hurricane501 · Nov 15, 2024

The gap is tiny, see pic, so i dunno what i can do to

The 4090 doesnt even turn on half the time and the fans are dead silent on that thing, its 100% these 3 fans at the top, they have rubber around each screw and you can see the rubber touching the rad at the corners of each fan, so why does it have resonance?

Paperdoc · Nov 15, 2024

Try WelshBloke's idea. Add rubber virbration pads at the bolts that fasten the rad frame to the inside of your case. They will reduce passing vibes to the frame AND add a little more clearance there in case the rad frame is gently touching the case.

hurricane501 · Nov 15, 2024

Paperdoc said:
Try WelshBloke's idea. Add rubber virbration pads at the bolts that fasten the rad frame to the inside of your case. They will reduce passing vibes to the frame AND add a little more clearance there in case the rad frame is gently touching the case.

Can you link me the item to try? And how do i fit it? i cant risk the rad being away from the case as it could fall and squash my 4090!

Paperdoc · Nov 16, 2024

You will have to support the rad temporarily because you will need to remove ALL of the screws that go down though the case top into holes in the rad. Perhaps your better plan would be to shut everything down and unplug, then turn your case on its side to remove those screws and install new parts.

If I read the manual for that AIO system correctly, the three fans are fastened to the underside of the rad by long bolts. THEN the entire assembly is fastened to the inside top of the case with shorter bolts through the case top from the outside, turning into threaded holes in the rad frame. Now, adding rubber pads between the rad and frame means the bolts MAY need to be longer if they are now just barely long enough to screw into the rad. IF that is the case, then you will need to find new bolts just a bit longer, but the SAME size (diameter and thread pitch) as the ones you have. However, if you're lucky, when you remove the existing bolts they will stick up from the case by a few mm before they actually unscrew from the holes in the rad.

For vibration pads I suggest something very simple like silicone rubber washers of suitable size (do NOT have to be really exact) to fit around each screw between the rad frame and the inside of the case top. You could try going to any hardware store and looking for something like this

https://www.amazon.com/Washers-Assortment-Grommet-Vibration-Plumbing/dp/B0BZKRX75Q/ref=sr_1_3?crid=XX4TKJA5CGT9&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.xEYhJlpjFoPVQY1GdFYhuggPxNmZZNVP3yDEdyBICT33KIbCY126RGOk2to-4rewRen3Z1aA1TkqonTMklc24jHACy6Uyuzfuqgm2hxkjvkYsgQSUMeoN0dzcZsN4E-zgEB8fnRBt74ItUf_rSCDzFx7Mx3AxM0ngP2ntxIXZn5CGNyDEZ2GTTRZtqVEsiJ1JijmwtAWqCa4VwATpYKbwF9kET6_QmbrkJDnVbE-mgw.LbyOC7qbm0QRiFXnzq5JTj3MXYJpBsGlNqumlVHNSiA&dib_tag=se&keywords=silicone+rubber+washer&qid=1731735471&sprefix=silicone+rubber+washer%2Caps%2C112&sr=8-3

That's a box of many washer sizes, and you pick the ones that fit. NOTE that this particular item has washers only 2 mm thick so you can avoid having to find bolts a lot longer. And the washers are somewhat soft, not really hard like the ones used in many water valves.

StefanR5R · Nov 16, 2024

So you have identified that the fans on the AIO (and not e.g. the pump) are the source of the noise, tested by stopping all potential noise sources individually, is this correct?

- - - - - - - -

Next question, is it truly resonance in the narrower meaning of the term, that is, _parts of the computer case_ being excited to vibrations by fan vibrations?

Or is it merely that there is an annoying tonality in the noise which the fans themselves produce?

In the former case, there are four approaches with different feasibility and chances of success:

Replace the fans.
Change the rotational speed of the fans.
Isolation: Suspend the fans softly from the radiator (right now they are bolted on: that's rigid, not soft; these rubber pads on the fan frames are just for show), or/and suspend the radiator softly from the case (right now the radiator is bolted on, I presume).
Stiffening/ addition of mass/ dampening of the vibrating parts of the case: Identify which panels vibrate. Fasten metallic rails on them as stiffeners, or glue on another layer of metal plate, or attach dampening mats similar or same as used in cars.

In the latter case:

Replace the fans.
Mount them on spacers to increase the distance between rotor and obstructions, i.e. the radiator fins. The spacers shall be air tight (i.e. provide a seal between fan frame and radiator corpus) in order to maintain cooling performance.

hurricane501 · Friday at 8:06 AM

Paperdoc said:
You will have to support the rad temporarily because you will need to remove ALL of the screws that go down though the case top into holes in the rad. Perhaps your better plan would be to shut everything down and unplug, then turn your case on its side to remove those screws and install new parts.

If I read the manual for that AIO system correctly, the three fans are fastened to the underside of the rad by long bolts. THEN the entire assembly is fastened to the inside top of the case with shorter bolts through the case top from the outside, turning into threaded holes in the rad frame. Now, adding rubber pads between the rad and frame means the bolts MAY need to be longer if they are now just barely long enough to screw into the rad. IF that is the case, then you will need to find new bolts just a bit longer, but the SAME size (diameter and thread pitch) as the ones you have. However, if you're lucky, when you remove the existing bolts they will stick up from the case by a few mm before they actually unscrew from the holes in the rad.

For vibration pads I suggest something very simple like silicone rubber washers of suitable size (do NOT have to be really exact) to fit around each screw between the rad frame and the inside of the case top. You could try going to any hardware store and looking for something like this

https://www.amazon.com/Washers-Assortment-Grommet-Vibration-Plumbing/dp/B0BZKRX75Q/ref=sr_1_3?crid=XX4TKJA5CGT9&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.xEYhJlpjFoPVQY1GdFYhuggPxNmZZNVP3yDEdyBICT33KIbCY126RGOk2to-4rewRen3Z1aA1TkqonTMklc24jHACy6Uyuzfuqgm2hxkjvkYsgQSUMeoN0dzcZsN4E-zgEB8fnRBt74ItUf_rSCDzFx7Mx3AxM0ngP2ntxIXZn5CGNyDEZ2GTTRZtqVEsiJ1JijmwtAWqCa4VwATpYKbwF9kET6_QmbrkJDnVbE-mgw.LbyOC7qbm0QRiFXnzq5JTj3MXYJpBsGlNqumlVHNSiA&dib_tag=se&keywords=silicone+rubber+washer&qid=1731735471&sprefix=silicone+rubber+washer%2Caps%2C112&sr=8-3

That's a box of many washer sizes, and you pick the ones that fit. NOTE that this particular item has washers only 2 mm thick so you can avoid having to find bolts a lot longer. And the washers are somewhat soft, not really hard like the ones used in many water valves.

Thank you.

This seems so scary... if its not secure that rad dropping on my 4090 is a death trap!

The 3 fans i see are on the bottom of the rad, can i not just use longer screws for these and add rubber that way? or do you think the resonance is due to the rad top end moving through the case?

Its good i ironed out the front case fans so i know the front is fine its just the rad thats the issue but thats also the worst part of the PC to change...

Overall this is very daunting... spending near £4k on a PC to have this issue has left me with a very sour mouth!

StefanR5R · Friday at 8:58 AM

So what do you mean by "resonance"? Are the fans themselves making a noise? Or are parts of the case making noise because they are excited by the fans?

hurricane501 · Friday at 9:16 AM

StefanR5R said:
So what do you mean by "resonance"? Are the fans themselves making a noise? Or are parts of the case making noise because they are excited by the fans?

All i know is the top 3 fans under the rad cause a humming noise that cant be blocked out even with over ear headphones...

If i pause all these fans the noise stops, so its 100% linked to these fans.

Speed doesnt matter... lowest RPM the sound is still there.

Only way to stop the noise is zero RPM but then my CPU overheats.

The above solution may work but its very risky and id have to take the cpu cooler out and make sure everything is secure and then test it.

The fans dont seem to be faulty, its just resonance throughout the case caused by these fans spinning.

The fans actually come built in with rubber wedges around the screws so to me the issue is the rad at the top of the case but im unable to confirm this as i havent taken the PC apart.

Overall for an expensive case and cooler im very disappointed!

In2Photos · Friday at 10:17 AM

Have you tried disconnecting one fan at a time to see if it is a single fan having an issue?

hurricane501 · Friday at 10:27 AM

In2Photos said:
Have you tried disconnecting one fan at a time to see if it is a single fan having an issue?

Yes, did you read the thread?

Its all the top fans even 1 will cause the resonance

In2Photos · Friday at 11:06 AM

hurricane501 said:
Yes, did you read the thread?

Its all the top fans even 1 will cause the resonance

Really? Yes I've read your thread and have been trying to help. So which post other than this one did you say it does it with even 1 fan?

Good luck, hope you get it figured out.

StefanR5R · Friday at 11:08 AM

hurricane501 said:
All i know is the top 3 fans under the rad cause a humming noise that cant be blocked out even with over ear headphones...

If i pause all these fans the noise stops, so its 100% linked to these fans.

Speed doesnt matter... lowest RPM the sound is still there.

Is the noise being reduced if you touch individual case panels (side, top, back front) — that is, firmly press against a panel? If yes, then the respective panel is "resonating" with fan vibrations. But as you are saying that the noise level is independent of fan speed, I doubt that this is what is going on. Because resonance of parts of the case would be limited to a somewhat narrow band of frequencies. It would happen if an natural frequency (eigen frequency) of the case component is close to the rotational speed or to a multiple of the rotational speed of the fans.

hurricane501 said:
The fans actually come built in with rubber wedges around the screws

As I said, these rubber pads are just for show. They neither help with isolation nor with dampening. The fan frames are bolted to the radiator casing, and this bolt connection is rigid. Any fan vibration is practically fully transmitted through the bolt connection from fan frame to radiator casing. This is a common issue with all fan mounts in watercooling kits which I have seen.

*However*, at at this point it occurs to me that it is more likely that the fans make the noise themselves, not exciting case parts, as argued above.

hurricane501 said:
Corsair iCUE H150i ELITE CAPELLIX XT 360mm AiO Liquid CPU Cooler in Black
Corsair iCUE 5000D RGB AIRFLOW Gaming Case - Black

According to Corsair's web site,

the case comes with "CORSAIR AF RGB ELITE PWM fans",
the closed loop liquid cooler comes with "CORSAIR AF RGB ELITE fans" too.

So they seem of identical type.
But why aren't the case fans making noise, but the radiator fans?
A few possible reasons:

They are not the same fan type after all.

You could unmount the fans and look if they have nameplates or anything which could provide further hints on this.

By coincidence, the case fans which you received happen to be good quality and the radiator fans which you received happen to be bad quality. Most fan makers have widely varying quality in their fan series. Buy a dozen fans of the same series, and you get some good ones and some bad ones.

You could swap the case fans with the radiator fans to find out.

The flow restriction which the radiator fins and the case's top grill create make the fans noisy, unlike the flow restriction from the case's front panel.

That's harder to test. There are special spacers available with which fans can be mounted slightly further away off their original mount, in order to reduce aerodynamic interference between rotor and grills/ fins etc.. Respectively longer screws would be required to use such spacers.
However, this type of noise is more prevalent with fans which are mounted in "pull" mode, whereas your radiator fans are apparently mounted in "push" mode.

The fans work well if mounted vertically but bad if mounted horizontally, notably with hanging rotor.

You could test this simply by laying the case flat on its right side. Then, not only the case fans but also the radiator fans are mounted vertically.

In2Photos said:
It shouldn't be vibration on those fans, they are pretty expensive.

Uhm, they may be expensive, but they are just Corsair fans. Their being expensive doesn't necessitate that they are designed well, manufactured well, and subject to tight and consistent QC.

(But the other way around is true: That fans are designed well, manufactured well, and subject to tight and consistent QC, absolutely necessitates that they are expensive. This cannot be done cheaply.)

In2Photos said:
Have you tried disconnecting one fan at a time to see if it is a single fan having an issue?

hurricane501 said:
Yes, did you read the thread?

Its all the top fans even 1 will cause the resonance

That is, you identified that it's really the fans, --> not the pump <--, right?

hurricane501 · Friday at 11:22 AM

In2Photos said:
Really? Yes I've read your thread and have been trying to help. So which post other than this one did you say it does it with even 1 fan?

Good luck, hope you get it figured out.

Ive said multiple times ive narrowed it down to 3 fans linked to the rad... i can use software to set to zero RPM which means turning the fans off... multiple times ive said that so i dunno why youre mad... if you cant read how can you help... im not being nasty its just yes ive said it multiple times!

In2Photos · Friday at 11:24 AM

hurricane501 said:
Ive said multiple times ive narrowed it down to 3 fans linked to the rad... i can use software to set to zero RPM which means turning the fans off... multiple times ive said that so i dunno why youre mad... if you cant read how can you help... im not being nasty its just yes ive said it multiple times!

And I said have you tried disconnecting one of those fans at a time to see if it's 1 bad fan. Who's the one that can't read?

hurricane501 · Friday at 11:32 AM

StefanR5R said:
Is the noise being reduced if you touch individual case panels (side, top, back front) — that is, firmly press against a panel? If yes, then the respective panel is "resonating" with fan vibrations. But as you are saying that the noise level is independent of fan speed, I doubt that this is what is going on. Because resonance of parts of the case would be limited to a somewhat narrow band of frequencies. It would happen if an natural frequency (eigen frequency) of the case component is close to the rotational speed or to a multiple of the rotational speed of the fans.

As I said, these rubber pads are just for show. They neither help with isolation nor with dampening. The fan frames are bolted to the radiator casing, and this bolt connection is rigid. Any fan vibration is practically fully transmitted through the bolt connection from fan frame to radiator casing. This is a common issue with all fan mounts in watercooling kits which I have seen.

*However*, at at this point it occurs to me that it is more likely that the fans make the noise themselves, not exciting case parts, as argued above.

According to Corsair's web site,

the case comes with "CORSAIR AF RGB ELITE PWM fans",

the closed loop liquid cooler comes with "CORSAIR AF RGB ELITE fans" too.

So they seem of identical type.
But why aren't the case fans making noise, but the radiator fans?
A few possible reasons:

They are not the same fan type after all.

You could unmount the fans and look if they have nameplates or anything which could provide further hints on this.

By coincidence, the case fans which you received happen to be good quality and the radiator fans which you received happen to be bad quality. Most fan makers have widely varying quality in their fan series. Buy a dozen fans of the same series, and you get some good ones and some bad ones.

You could swap the case fans with the radiator fans to find out.

The flow restriction which the radiator fins and the case's top grill create make the fans noisy, unlike the flow restriction from the case's front panel.

That's harder to test. There are special spacers available with which fans can be mounted slightly further away off their original mount, in order to reduce aerodynamic interference between rotor and grills/ fins etc.. Respectively longer screws would be required to use such spacers.
However, this type of noise is more prevalent with fans which are mounted in "pull" mode, whereas your radiator fans are apparently mounted in "push" mode.

The fans work well if mounted vertically but bad if mounted horizontally, notably with hanging rotor.

You could test this simply by laying the case flat on its right side. Then, not only the case fans but also the radiator fans are mounted vertically.

Uhm, they may be expensive, but they are just Corsair fans. Their being expensive doesn't necessitate that they are designed well, manufactured well, and subject to tight and consistent QC.

(But the other way around is true: That fans are designed well, manufactured well, and subject to tight and consistent QC, absolutely necessitates that they are expensive. This cannot be done cheaply.)

That is, you identified that it's really the fans, --> not the pump <--, right?

SO the fans should be identical but i dont think thats the issue, the issue is not the fans, the issue is the connection to rad from the fans with the case.

Nothing reduces the resonance other than turning the fans off, my PC is on a plastic custom made platform on the carpet, so its as muffled as it could be platform wise.

So again i need to get this across, the fans are silent until high RPM but i cap them to 600-700 anyway or run quiet profile which caps out around 900ish. Theres no noise from the fans, they are silent. The noise is a hum resonance sound from the case due to the fans moving, the faster they move the lounder and faster the resonance becomes.

So the sound is kinda like hmmmmmMMMMMmmmmMMMMmmmmmMMMM, even with a headset on you can hear this, its impossible to drown out thats why its so bad! I have a £200 headset which blocks out everything bar this sound lol!

Ive moved the PC as far away from my chair as possible and can still hear this sound, due to monitors and stuff i cant have it miles away but its a good half meter away from me.

Game volume and music can drown it out when i get engrossed but any silent parts and it will become noticable and then grind me down as it will be in the background.

Corsair RMA are useless they will just replace parts but thats not the issue the issue is how the parts connect.

Ive already had to throttle the pump as the pump is the worst noise ever! like a squealing pig, i will never ever buy another corsair AIO cooler.

Hopefully new mobo designs allow the CPU and heatsink on the rear and everything else on the front and then id just whack a huge air cooler on it... but with a 4090 i need the space as its too big.

hurricane501 · Friday at 11:38 AM

In2Photos said:
And I said have you tried disconnecting one of those fans at a time to see if it's 1 bad fan. Who's the one that can't read?

Mate i dunno if youre not understanding something?

I can set every single fan to turn off... one by one... to pin point the exact issue.

SO i turned ALL the fans off then i turned them on one at a time so all off 1 on then all off 2 on all the way through the 6 fans to see if the issue was a unique fan.

I then turned on 1-3 which are the front case fans, = no issue so from there i knew the issue was 4-6 the rad fans at the top of the case.

I then turned off 4-6 and did the same again 4 on 5-6 off ect...

Doesnt matter which 4-6 fan is on it will resonate, its not a unique fan issue its any movement from any 4-6 fan on the rad and i get the resonating sound, obviously the more moving parts the worse the resonating too.

So what were trying to do is work out how to stop this, the idea above is very risky as anything not connected and secure properly could drop the rad on my 4090 which is basically the PC... cost over 50% the PC cost so i dont wanna risk trying to float the rad or anything if theres a chance of it coming loose and splatting my 4090.

Hope this makes sense to you as theres no need for me to disconnect anything, i can do everything via software.

StefanR5R · Friday at 11:59 AM

hurricane501 said:
The noise is a hum resonance sound from the case

Two things to try then:

a) As mentioned, try to identify which part of the case (if any) is resonating, by pressing hands firmly against each panel one by one. This both stiffens the respective part of the case and dampens it.

b) Temporarily, hang the radiator into two or three loops of string (instead of having it bolted onto the case). Some sort of elastic string would be preferable, but any conventional string might do the trick already. This is just meant as a test, not as a permanent solution. If this contraption does have an effect, it would at least show directions to a permanent solution. Two loops of string are sufficient, but a third loop would provide additional safety. :-)

Back in the days when folks had mechanical hard drives, the most effective way to prevent transmissions of their vibrations to the computer case was to suspend the HDD on elastic strings.

Alternatively, unmount the radiator and place it on some sort of pedestal outside of your computer case (which you keep open¹ for this test). Note, from what I understand about closed loop liquid coolers: The radiator most likely includes a chamber which has the purpose to catch air bubbles in the closed loop. This chamber should remain positioned above the pump while the CLLC is operating.

________
¹) Apropos, is the noise perhaps going away if you simply keep one or another side panel off?

Paperdoc · Friday at 12:35 PM

So now you have made it clear that you HAVE tested the rad fans ONE at a time, and any one of them is sufficient to generate the noise.

Back to my suggestion of installing noise isolation rubber between the rad and the case top. I understand fully your worry about damaging other components if the rad assembly drops, and I agree. That is why I suggested turning the whole case on its side, wide right-hand side down. Then you can open the left-hand panel which is now facing up. NOTE that, according to the system manual, the screws fastening each fan to the rad do NOT go all the way through the rad AND the case top, so they do NOT fasten the rad assembly to the inside of the top.That attachment is done by separate screws that are inserted from outside the top, through the top panel and into holes in the rad. It is these screws that need to be removed and replaced when installing vibration dampeners.

I suggested earlier flat thin rubber washers between the rad and inside of the top panel. However, the post above from StefanR5R raises a valid point when he spoke of the solid bolts fastening each fan to the rad. In a similar manner, the existing screws through the top panel into the rad frame will also be a path for transmission of vibrations to the top panel. Flat washers would reduce that, but there is an even better way, rubber grommets. Something like these.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DFYRQJKM/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B0DFYRQJKM&pd_rd_w=gjhYT&content-id=amzn1.sym.8c2f9165-8e93-42a1-8313-73d3809141a2&pf_rd_p=8c2f9165-8e93-42a1-8313-73d3809141a2&pf_rd_r=QM7J5G8CCWF62F9JAQF6&pd_rd_wg=3dsfD&pd_rd_r=7af869bc-a2f6-4b26-9239-3d4e53ac1c86&s=hi&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWw

As you can see, a grommet is a sleeve that goes right through the hole in the panel and has flat larger "disks" on both sides of the hole. That way the screw shaft through the hole never actually touches the metal panel. That particular one has a thin "flat" on one side of only 2 mm thickness, so that side would go towards the rad. I am NOT recommending those ones in particular. You should be able to find something similar in a good size by searching in hardware stores.

There IS a problem with this idea. You would have to drill each existing hole in your top panel to a larger diameter to suit the diameter of the grommet's middle "sleeve" part, and that creates metal filings that would need to be cleaned out of your case thoroughly before final installation. And POSSIBLY the existing screws might not be long enough to reach through the full thickness of the grommet. So unless you are comfortable with this plan, the flat rubber washer concept is less complex for installation.

Either way, my main point was turning the case on its side to do the work. When you do that, you can remove the screws from outside the top to detach the rad/fan assembly from inside that top panel. As you do that, the rad can be allowed to drop down against the case's back panel (now on the bottom) and you can carefully prop it in place so it does not rotate over onto your mobo. Position the rad slightly away from the top and insert the screws back through the top panel from the ouside so they stick in. Use tweeezers or something to reach into the space and place a rubber washer onto each screw end. Then gently move the rad into contact with the screw ends and, one by one, turn each screw part way into its matching hole in the rad. When they all are started properly, go around and tighten all. Now you can return the case to its normal upright position.

Of course, IF you opt for the grommets idea, inserting them is a lttle diffeent, but still you can control where the rad assembly is carefully without risking that it fall on something.

Question Resonance

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