Israel: We Are At War

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KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,273
45,860
136
(Really?)
Dead is dead, sure. But the question and results of voting is... how many will?
For Trump, he wouldn't mind if they ALL disappeared for some nice beach front property.

And let's not pretend Kamala would have been as kind to that as Joe. Different generation, different attitude towards war and violence. She would have found it less acceptable and with more consequence.
i think it's laughable that she would have been any fucking different, most democrats are lock step behind this genocide just like the gop , just look at their voting records on israel
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,979
12,097
136
i think it's laughable that she would have been any fucking different, most democrats are lock step behind this genocide just like the gop , just look at their voting records on israel

Especially since the Biden administration just took the gloves off re Ukraine (allowing US long range missiles to be used against targets inside Russia) and yet passed up another opportunity to rein in Israel.

I'm not going to bothsides this (which I think you're in danger of doing), but will there be a meaningful difference in policy between the Trump and Biden administrations with regard to Israel is what it comes down to. I'm in agreement with you if all the difference ends up being is that Trump couldn't care less what Israel does to Palestine while the Biden administration whined a bit but otherwise did nothing of value.

Israel needs to know that there's a line that they can't cross without real consequences. I don't recall the Biden administration ever achieving that.
 
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KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,273
45,860
136
My apologies, i'm just so infuriated over the democrats policy on israel , decades of this shit but we are supposed to believe that Kamala would have been different than Joe?
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,632
10,046
146
A welcome surprise, though the UK's position currently is "we're happy to arm this guy, and we're happy to arrest him for crimes against humanity".

That's the fucking dilemma, isn't it . . . separating support for the State of Israel to exist from their murderous, amoral criminal government. It really shouldn't be a "dilemma" at all.
 
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KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,273
45,860
136
they certainly have an extremist problem, but they also have been voting in progressively more fascist parties as time goes by, their left wing party (labour) barely has any seats




meanwhile in Hebron, West Bank


Several dozen Jewish extremists in Hebron try to attack IDF’s top West Bank commander
By ToI Staff
Today, 1:54 am

Several dozens Jewish extremists in Hebron for an annual pilgrimage tried to attack the head of the IDF Central Command Maj. Gen. Avi Bluth, who the military said was in the flashpoint West Bank city on Friday to secure the gathering.

Five suspects were arrested by police after they chased Bluth and the soldiers accompanying him, calling the IDF commander a “traitor.” The head of Central Command typically has a fraught relationship with settler extremists, since the army is tasked with trying to keep them in check in the West Bank.

The IDF said that the group of young suspects chased Bluth and tried to block an exit that the military needed for operational activity.

No injuries were reported to Bluth or the soldiers with him.

After five suspects were arrested, the gathering of rioters was dispersed, the army said, adding that it strongly condemned the violence.

Each year, tens of thousands of Jewish worshippers visit Hebron to mark the yearly Torah reading of the biblical Abraham’s purchase of site where the Tomb of the Patriarch sits to bury his wife, the matriarch Sarah. Successive years have seen Jewish rioters target Palestinian locals whose movement in the city is further restricted by the IDF to secure the area for the pilgrims.

There was no immediate comment on the attempted attack on Bluth from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu or Defense Minister Israel Katz, the latter of whom earlier Friday announced an end to administrative detention orders for West Bank settlers, meaning Israel will now be using the controversial policy of holding suspects without charge only against Palestinian terror suspects.

The Shin Bet had reportedly warned against the move
, with the security agency’s chief Ronen Bar saying in June that banning the measure against Israelis “will result in an immediate, severe and serious harm to the security of the state” in cases where there is clear information that a suspect may carry out a terror attack....
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,722
520
126
Well understood. But Trump is and will be worse.
And yet the DNC has been very effective at stopping attempts from the more left members of the voters who lean toward the Democratic Party over the rethugs (and leftist politicians who find the Democratic Party much preferable to work with than the GOP) to bring the Democratic Party more toward left leaning economic policies (arguably back to a more FDR style era in terms of expanding the Social Safety nets.

At the same time while being very effective in primaries fending off efforts to push the former party of the working class to return to those policies that FDR used to make the Democratic party a force in politics the same DNC all of a sudden fall apart when it comes to strategizing on how to beat rethugs by getting natural GOP leaning voters to vote for Democratic nominees after shaming blue collar workers for not getting a degree.

as illustrated in this older video of Schumer outlining a (now proven to be a failed) strategy.


Sure Trump will be worse. But Biden never demonstrated that his support of Netanyahu (despite Netanyahu calling anyone who said "You know this disregard for killing civilians with heavy bombs on a urban area in this way is probably war crimes..." an anti-semite) is conditioned on the IDF taking more steps to minimize civilian casualties or refraining from interfering with humanitarian aid reaching refugees who have fled Gaza.

And VP Harris never stated that her administration would have any different policies than Biden's although there was one obvious area which would have arguably garnered her more support in swing states if she mentioned it.

While Trump is gleefully preparing to be worse. The Biden administration didn't seem to actually want to be much better than Trump on Netanyahu's campaign of atrocities visited on civilians in Gaza




______
 

DaaQ

Golden Member
Dec 8, 2018
1,568
1,139
136
And yet the DNC has been very effective at stopping attempts from the more left members of the voters who lean toward the Democratic Party over the rethugs (and leftist politicians who find the Democratic Party much preferable to work with than the GOP) to bring the Democratic Party more toward left leaning economic policies (arguably back to a more FDR style era in terms of expanding the Social Safety nets.

At the same time while being very effective in primaries fending off efforts to push the former party of the working class to return to those policies that FDR used to make the Democratic party a force in politics the same DNC all of a sudden fall apart when it comes to strategizing on how to beat rethugs by getting natural GOP leaning voters to vote for Democratic nominees after shaming blue collar workers for not getting a degree.

as illustrated in this older video of Schumer outlining a (now proven to be a failed) strategy.


Sure Trump will be worse. But Biden never demonstrated that his support of Netanyahu (despite Netanyahu calling anyone who said "You know this disregard for killing civilians with heavy bombs on a urban area in this way is probably war crimes..." an anti-semite) is conditioned on the IDF taking more steps to minimize civilian casualties or refraining from interfering with humanitarian aid reaching refugees who have fled Gaza.

And VP Harris never stated that her administration would have any different policies than Biden's although there was one obvious area which would have arguably garnered her more support in swing states if she mentioned it.

While Trump is gleefully preparing to be worse. The Biden administration didn't seem to actually want to be much better than Trump on Netanyahu's campaign of atrocities visited on civilians in Gaza




______
What makes what Putin is doing any different than what Netenyahu is doing any different from anything? Why has the UN called for war crimes on the latter and not the former?

Why did Biden try to get humanitarian aide to Gaza, why does the GOP want to deny Ukraine their right to defend themselves?

Why do people feel the need to shit on other people's rights and that is ok with Nationalist Ideology?

I grew up in Dearborn Heights MI, I guarantee you that community in Dearborn MI will get worse results next year than last year.

To get a more FDR type era, there is going to be much more turmoil. I knew and worked with plenty of people that were actually lower middle class who thought they were upper middle class, and vote against their own best interests. UAW people. They bought the "bootstraps" thinking they would actually fit on their feet.
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,306
685
126
Harris would have been worse. When asked who she thought the most dangerous adversary of the United States was, her answer was Iran. Think about how she came up to that conclusion and everything else can be inferred from that nonsense.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,273
45,860
136

arresting a 79 year old for repeating facts that where reported by haaratz/bbc/nyt

I’m an Israeli Jew. It’s well known that both my parents survived Auschwitz. Like Tony Greenstein, I’m a “problem.” We’re both anti-Zionist Jews who are active for Palestinians’ rights and against Zionism’s crimes. It’s difficult to criticize us as antisemites, because we’ve written books on antisemitism and written about the Holocaust profusely. This is just a way of frightening, intimidating, silencing and criminalizing us in the pro-Palestine camp. This is happening everywhere in the EU and it’s happening in Britain. Germany and Britain are the worst places.
I was an officer in the Israeli army and fought in totally unnecessary wars. Most of my early research is about antisemitism. But now I’m told that I’m an antisemite when I just say what is written in the papers.


What we have now, and what you will probably have under Trump, is an even worse system of Zionist values, which claim that to support genocide is okay, but to speak out against genocide is against the law.


This is unacceptable and immoral. And it’s un-Jewish. It’s against the values of Judaism of 2,000 years. There is nothing in Judaism that justifies what is happening in Gaza. This is a travesty of history.
 
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SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,749
6,425
136
Harris would have been worse. When asked who she thought the most dangerous adversary of the United States was, her answer was Iran. Think about how she came up to that conclusion and everything else can be inferred from that nonsense.
So much more aggressive against Iran than when Trump actually assassinated Soleimani.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
28,029
27,433
136
Harris would have been worse. When asked who she thought the most dangerous adversary of the United States was, her answer was Iran. Think about how she came up to that conclusion and everything else can be inferred from that nonsense.
You've moved way past legal drugs haven't you?
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,273
45,860
136
Joe "Rules Based Order" Biden trying to strong arm allies into abandoning their treaty obligations under part of that rules-based-order to appease the US's pet genocidal apartheid ethnostate.



also strange when israel is has been killing mediators
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
6,094
1,203
126
Joe "Rules Based Order" Biden trying to strong arm allies into abandoning their treaty obligations under part of that rules-based-order to appease the US's pet genocidal apartheid ethnostate.

View attachment 112134

also strange when israel is has been killing mediators
I suspect the situation is that Biden/USA feels it needs Israel as an ally in the middle east; so while they don't like what is happening in Gaza they don't know what they can do about it. Remember the grand ol USA often support anti-communist dictators in South America which is one of the reason we have such a problem with immigrants and drugs in the USA. IMHO they should bite the bullet and say what Israel is doing is unacceptable and cut off offensive weapons and arrest Netanyahu if he steps foot in USA. The IC doesn't work some of the time - you either enforce the rulings of the IC or you disband it.

Of course we see countries not arresting Putin when they should for much the same reason. Cheap oil benefits them.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,273
45,860
136
I suspect the situation is that Biden/USA feels it needs Israel as an ally in the middle east; so while they don't like what is happening in Gaza they don't know what they can do about it. Remember the grand ol USA often support anti-communist dictators in South America which is one of the reason we have such a problem with immigrants and drugs in the USA. IMHO they should bite the bullet and say what Israel is doing is unacceptable and cut off offensive weapons and arrest Netanyahu if he steps foot in USA. The IC doesn't work some of the time - you either enforce the rulings of the IC or you disband it.

Of course we see countries not arresting Putin when they should for much the same reason. Cheap oil benefits them.
the US did not sign that ICC treaty, the threat of being treated the way they treated others resulted in the hague act
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,507
11,145
136
And yet the DNC has been very effective at stopping attempts from the more left members of the voters who lean toward the Democratic Party over the rethugs (and leftist politicians who find the Democratic Party much preferable to work with than the GOP) to bring the Democratic Party more toward left leaning economic policies (arguably back to a more FDR style era in terms of expanding the Social Safety nets.

At the same time while being very effective in primaries fending off efforts to push the former party of the working class to return to those policies that FDR used to make the Democratic party a force in politics the same DNC all of a sudden fall apart when it comes to strategizing on how to beat rethugs by getting natural GOP leaning voters to vote for Democratic nominees after shaming blue collar workers for not getting a degree.

as illustrated in this older video of Schumer outlining a (now proven to be a failed) strategy.


Sure Trump will be worse. But Biden never demonstrated that his support of Netanyahu (despite Netanyahu calling anyone who said "You know this disregard for killing civilians with heavy bombs on a urban area in this way is probably war crimes..." an anti-semite) is conditioned on the IDF taking more steps to minimize civilian casualties or refraining from interfering with humanitarian aid reaching refugees who have fled Gaza.

And VP Harris never stated that her administration would have any different policies than Biden's although there was one obvious area which would have arguably garnered her more support in swing states if she mentioned it.

While Trump is gleefully preparing to be worse. The Biden administration didn't seem to actually want to be much better than Trump on Netanyahu's campaign of atrocities visited on civilians in Gaza




______
Never understood the Dems, just get a degree and everything will be better horseshit. Number one, not everybody is college material. The degree does not guarantee you actually learned anything from my experience.
 
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