Question Hi Silicon (Huawei) Proccesor and SoC thread

DZero · Nov 5, 2024

Ok, this is a new thread related to Hi Silicon SoCs and I found this new.

What makes interesting enough is that used X1 core but has the performance of SD 8 Gen 2, and is totally incoherent on that.

So yeah, seems that not only D8400 is about to be released, but also Huawei's one too.

So, I made this thread in order to see how Huawei shows their progress.. I'll try to find more info about their mid tier too, the Kirin 8000.

gdansk · Nov 5, 2024

Sounds like crap. Who is interested in a new X1 core in 2024?

DZero · Nov 5, 2024

gdansk said:
Sounds like crap. Who is interested in a new X1 core in 2024?

That is incoherent. That is why I feel that the processor is totally different and expecting an all Out of order processor. Maybe on par with D8400 if the CPU is all OoO. Maleoon 910 would make the situation awful since they are recycling the same GPU, even worse than AMD in their days.

DZero · Nov 26, 2024

Aaaand...
https://www.gsmarena.com/details_on..._inside_the_new_mate_70_series-news-65497.php

Interesting enough...

It was not ARM X1 processor, now this is interesting. I want to see how Taishan cores are now and Maleoon 920? Ok Huawei...

If the performance is on par with SD 8+ Gen 1 it would be a great advancement (remember that it was made in 4nm TSMC process!) and if goes near SD 8 Gen 2 or Dimensity 9200... OOOH BOY! US and West would be worried.

Panino Manino · Nov 26, 2024

Doesn't matter, Huawei does/delivers more with the lower processing they have available.

DZero · Dec 4, 2024

New info is out:
News

And in Nanoreview shows the improvement by 30%...

DZero · Dec 6, 2024

HERE WE GO!
KIRIN 9020!!!

Interesting points...
- Huawei managed to beat Samsung in the topic of creating a in house small core.

- The small core is OUT OF ORDER!!! Damn Arm, even HUAWEI pulls it earlier than you, heck, even MEDIATEK is getting rid of those crappy cores.

- Consider that Huawei uses inferior tech...

- Bigger cores are interesting too.

- Cache wise improved too

- GPU wise is the weakness. On par with SD 888

Buut... game wise is near SD 8 Gen 2 tier.... Impressive Huawei... impressive.

In few words... thanks US, you unlocked the monster Huawei is now. Even managed to pull a small core that can be a perfect usable for Mediatek since is Out of Order.

FlameTail · Dec 6, 2024

Very impressive stuff.

The custom ARM small core in the 9020 is only 2 wide. This is true OoO small core.

Whereas Qualcomm and Apple's "small cores" are 4 wide and 5 wide respectively. The width of the decoder isn't the end-all-and-be-all of a CPU microarchitecture, but it does give you an idea about the scale of the core.

DZero · Dec 6, 2024

if ARM A5XX is not being ending into a big failure, ARM should move the in order core on EOL right now and focus on an efficient OoO core.

DrMrLordX · Dec 11, 2024

DZero said:
if ARM A5XX is not being ending into a big failure, ARM should move the in order core on EOL right now and focus on an efficient OoO core.

It seems like "small" variants of the A7xx cores are being used instead of A5xx cores in some ARM designs.

Panino Manino · Dec 11, 2024

DrMrLordX said:
It seems like "small" variants of the A7xx cores are being used instead of A5xx cores in some ARM designs.

A low clocked A78 couldn't do this job?

FlameTail · Dec 11, 2024

Here's a crude classification of latest ARM cores based on performance.

Perf	ARM	Apple	Qualcomm	Huawei
Very High	Cortex X	P-core	Oryon-L
High	Cortex A7xx ~3 GHz		Oryon-M	Taishan Super Core
Low	Cortex A7xx ~2 GHz	E-core		Taishan Big Core
Very Low	Cortex A5xx			Taishan Small Core

DrMrLordX · Dec 11, 2024

Panino Manino said:
A low clocked A78 couldn't do this job?

It could, but some SoCs seem to be using A710 for this purpose instead.

Panino Manino · Dec 11, 2024

FlameTail said:
Here's a crude classification of latest ARM cores based on performance.

Shouldn't Taishan Small be on the bottom Low, top Very low?

DZero · Dec 11, 2024

Panino Manino said:
Shouldn't Taishan Small be on the bottom Low, top Very low?

Funny story no. Even more... Small taishan could be better than ARM Small core. Why?
Small Core are In order core, of course will be totally inferior.

soresu · Dec 11, 2024

DZero said:
In few words... thanks US, you unlocked the monster Huawei is now

Even with better or equal µArch design they are still hampered by lithography which is not a trivial thing when it took so very long for the big players to make EUV work.

That's not even getting into recent advanced packaging improvements, high NA, backside power delivery or GAAFET.

This is not to say I don't want Huawei to be competitive, my last phone was a Mate 10, and only the power button falling off after 5 years was enough to get me to finally buy a new phone (S21 FE).

Sadly I think Huawei's time of competitive punch in the west has gone to dust.

DZero · Dec 11, 2024

soresu said:
Even with better or equal µArch design they are still hampered by lithography which is not a trivial thing when it took so very long for the big players to make EUV work.

That's not even getting into recent advanced packaging improvements, high NA, backside power delivery or GAAFET.

This is not to say I don't want Huawei to be competitive, my last phone was a Mate 10, and only the power button falling off after 5 years was enough to get me to finally buy a new phone (S21 FE).

Sadly I think Huawei's time of competitive punch in the west has gone to dust.

Indeed, the future might look bleak, but the issue is that is not only Huawei's bad future... also Samsung and Intel is on trouble and if somehow TSMC suffers from productions issues in the future, being alone on the top would make stop the progress of the chip evolution.

soresu · Dec 11, 2024

DZero said:
Indeed, the future might look bleak, but the issue is that is not only Huawei's bad future... also Samsung and Intel is on trouble and if somehow TSMC suffers from productions issues in the future, being alone on the top would make stop the progress of the chip evolution.

Not so sure about the monopoly problem vis a vis TSMC.

It's not quite the same issue with fab process tech, because their customers are not consumers spending a few hundred dollars at a time, but rather OEMs spending tens of $millions to $billions at a time on fab allocation.

If TSMC stops innovating, their customers no longer have the forward momentum of improvement to justify consumers buying their new generations of product, and the whole thing falls apart.

IMHO I'm kinda more concerned about litho machines at this point.

That seems like more of a choke point than the fabs that use them.

DZero · Dec 11, 2024

soresu said:
Not so sure about the monopoly problem vis a vis TSMC.

It's not quite the same issue with fab process tech, because their customers are not consumers spending a few hundred dollars at a time, but rather OEMs spending tens of $millions to $billions at a time on fab allocation.

If TSMC stops innovating, their customers no longer have the forward momentum of improvement to justify consumers buying their new generations of product, and the whole thing falls apart.

IMHO I'm kinda more concerned about litho machines at this point.

That seems like more of a choke point than the fabs that use them.

Indeed too, the sad story is that not only Huawei moved forward without looking back, Samsung and Intel did the same and might end badly. TSMC practically has viable nodes under 10 nm.

The issue is that even maintaining the process node and improving the performance, people are slowly stopping to buy new phones and the reduction of competition will just accelerate the outcome until a new renovation happens.

soresu · Dec 11, 2024

DZero said:
Indeed too, the sad story is that not only Huawei moved forward without looking back

At this point they had no other option short of pulling anchor from China and putting down roots in the US, if that is even possible for them.

Ironically if it was possible I think that the industry would welcome it.

Qualcomm needs market checks and balances in the modem department, and at the moment they just don't have them.

Even if Apple manages to field a competitive alternative I don't see them selling it as a 3rd party component.

DZero · Dec 11, 2024

soresu said:
At this point they had no other option short of pulling anchor from China and putting down roots in the US, if that is even possible for them.

Ironically if it was possible I think that the industry would welcome it.

Qualcomm needs market checks and balances in the modem department, and at the moment they just don't have them.

Even if Apple manages to field a competitive alternative I don't see them selling it as a 3rd party component.

The issue is that the anchor might crash the whole ship to a big downturn along tablets.

Funny story ARM laptops are ready to save ARM market.

DZero · Dec 29, 2024

And well... there is the Kirin 8000A rumours now...

Huawei Enjoy 70X tipped to debut as world-first Kirin 8000A-powered smartphone with satellite messaging

Huawei is now projected to bring satellite messaging to an affordable tier of the Chinese smartphone market with the Enjoy 70X. The device might also have a new version of the Kirin 8000 processor, a 50MP rear camera and a design ported from a higher-end device.

www.notebookcheck.net

This is for 5G version. No info about their CPU config.

Take in care that there will be also a 4G version. And seems that might be the Kirin 8000. It is well known that the Kirin 8000 had the following specs:

Huawei Nova Flip: specs, benchmarks, and user reviews

Huawei Nova Flip – full specifications, battery, camera, display, and performance tests. User and expert reviews.

nanoreview.net

CPU:
2.40 (1xA77 H)
2.19 (3xA77 L)
1.84 (4xA55)

GPU: Mali-G610 MP4

Process: 7nm SMIC

There are chances that might be the same chip but with the 5G enabled.

DZero · Dec 30, 2024

And well... the Kirin 8000A ended to be a hog...

Huawei Enjoy 70X hands-on leaks ahead of January 3 launch date

A lot of its specs have been outed. Huawei is launching a new mid-range smartphone on January 3, the company has officially announced. This is the Enjoy...

www.gsmarena.com

CPU: It's an Hexa Core
2.19 (3xA77)
1.84 (3xA55)

GPU: Mali-G610 MP4 - 864 Mhz

Process: 7nm SMIC

Panino Manino · Dec 30, 2024

Wow, Huawei bringing back tri-cores?

DZero · Dec 30, 2024

Panino Manino said:
Wow, Huawei bringing back tri-cores?

Seems so... maybe they don't want to waste it, but... why didn't renamed it into Kirin 7000 instead to leave the Kirin 8000 with the Quad one?

Question Hi Silicon (Huawei) Proccesor and SoC thread

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