First, their gaming performance is worse than their last gen. But even this gen has problems that not all the patches are out for.If I were you, I wouldn't buy Intel at this point in time. Specially for gaming.
I have both 12600K and 7950X and the boot times are about 5s different after enabling memory context restore. So I urge you to try some more because it shouldn't be a big difference.The only thing that annoys me about the AMD is the very slow boot times.
It's insight not incite. And why were you afraid of the responses being reasonable, rational, and factual? If you are looking for someone to blow smoke up your skirt hit up techpowerup forums they love Intel to the "living in a reality distortion field" level there. They will convince you to build Intel in short order. 🤣Oh well, I was afraid the replies were going to be along these lines. I appreciate the incite.
I would not touch Intel desktop unless it were so incredibly cheap that it is irresistible. The 5 yr warranty is pretty sweet insurance. Provided when they run out of stock they don't screw you over on a refund. Leaving you needing a new platform regardless. Not an acceptable solution from my POV. Particularly if the user went DDR4.So, what about building with a 13th or 14th Gen Intel? i know they were in the doghouse for quite a while. I read a lot of articles about the crashing issues. I've also read about some of the fixes. But does anyone have one that they are presently using for gaming that can elaborate on whether it worth spending the money on it or should I just stick with AMD?
What board is it? My AM5 system boots in 11-12 seconds, if that is not fast enough for you, I can't help with that. Have you enable memory context restore with the latest bios for your board? That has helped a bunch of users from reading around. My ASRock board did not need that, it booted fast as soon as the initial memory training completed. Which also took much less time than many whinged about early in the platform's lifespan.I will say that one of the reasons I wanted to build an Intel machine is because I already have a very good AMD machine that I love but I want a second computer. The only thing that annoys me about the AMD is the very slow boot times. I've done everything to try and improve them and they are still slow. I never had that problem in the past with Intel.
Oh well, I was afraid the replies were going to be along these lines. I appreciate the incite.
So, what about building with a 13th or 14th Gen Intel? i know they were in the doghouse for quite a while. I read a lot of articles about the crashing issues. I've also read about some of the fixes. But does anyone have one that they are presently using for gaming that can elaborate on whether it worth spending the money on it or should I just stick with AMD?
I will say that one of the reasons I wanted to build an Intel machine is because I already have a very good AMD machine that I love but I want a second computer. The only thing that annoys me about the AMD is the very slow boot times. I've done everything to try and improve them and they are still slow. I never had that problem in the past with Intel.
Thank you for the grammar lesson and I was simply stating that I "thought" the replies would be as such considering what I have read about Intel, not that I was hoping for someone to sell me lies.It's insight not incite. And why were you afraid of the responses being reasonable, rational, and factual? If you are looking for someone to blow smoke up your skirt hit up techpowerup forums they love Intel to the "living in a reality distortion field" level there. They will convince you to build Intel in short order. 🤣
I would not touch Intel desktop unless it were so incredibly cheap that it is irresistible. The 5 yr warranty is pretty sweet insurance. Provided when they run out of stock they don't screw you over on a refund. Leaving you needing a new platform regardless. Not an acceptable solution from my POV. Particularly if the user went DDR4.
What board is it? My AM5 system boots in 11-12 seconds, if that is not fast enough for you, I can't help with that. Have you enable memory context restore with the latest bios for your board? That has helped a bunch of users from reading around. My ASRock board did not need that, it booted fast as soon as the initial memory training completed. Which also took much less time than many whinged about early in the platform's lifespan.
If you were serious about building Intel you should wait for the fixed performance by January and if they fix ARL Performance only than should you consider Arrow Lake Rapto Lake is risky and AMD is a safe bet unless Intel has something that AMD Doesn't have ( TB/More PCI/Faster Ram and stuff )Thank you for the grammar lesson and I was simply stating that I "thought" the replies would be as such considering what I have read about Intel, not that I was hoping for someone to sell me lies.
As far as my board. It is an ASRock X670e Carbon. I did enable Memory context restore and my boot times are still upwards of 15 seconds. My grandsons Intel machine boots in 5.
You also didn't read my post very carefully because I did state in the final paragraph that I already do have an AMD machine that I love. I was just looking for peoples experience with the latest Intel because I was considering building an Intel for my second PC.
Thank you for the info though.
If you're gaming you can probably find a deal on a 13600k or a 14600k if you must go Intel. Those chips are not prone to degradation and also should be plenty fast enough for gaming for years to come.Thank you for the grammar lesson and I was simply stating that I "thought" the replies would be as such considering what I have read about Intel, not that I was hoping for someone to sell me lies.
As far as my board. It is an ASRock X670e Carbon. I did enable Memory context restore and my boot times are still upwards of 15 seconds. My grandsons Intel machine boots in 5.
You also didn't read my post very carefully because I did state in the final paragraph that I already do have an AMD machine that I love. I was just looking for peoples experience with the latest Intel because I was considering building an Intel for my second PC.
Thank you for the info though.
Ultimately I think Raptor Lake proved that wrong. There are bad products. There's probably not been a larger CAVEAT EMPTOR written on used CPUs in long, long time. At least Intel fixed it for new CPUs but I'd still be looking for Alder Lake or Arrow Lake instead.Its like the old adage: "There are no bad products, just bad prices".
Definitely buying a RPL I7/I9 is a gamble as for arrow lake we will with the promised fixesUltimately I think Raptor Lake proved that wrong. There are bad products. There's probably not been a larger CAVEAT EMPTOR written on used CPUs in long, long time. At least Intel fixed it for new CPUs but I'd still be looking Alder Lake or Arrow Lake instead.
Just a quick question, is your grandsons Intel using DDR4 or DDR5 ?Thank you for the grammar lesson and I was simply stating that I "thought" the replies would be as such considering what I have read about Intel, not that I was hoping for someone to sell me lies.
As far as my board. It is an ASRock X670e Carbon. I did enable Memory context restore and my boot times are still upwards of 15 seconds. My grandsons Intel machine boots in 5.
You also didn't read my post very carefully because I did state in the final paragraph that I already do have an AMD machine that I love. I was just looking for peoples experience with the latest Intel because I was considering building an Intel for my second PC.
Thank you for the info though.
I have a DDR5 MTL Laptop and I haven't experienced it if there is any maybe different with Intel desktopJust a quick question, is your grandsons Intel using DDR4 or DDR5 ?
I believe DDR5 memory training slows down boot process I believe on both platforms (AMD & Intel).
Might be wrong though, have not built a Intel DDR5 PC yet (plenty of AMD AM5).
It is indeed a bad choice for gaming, and I think your analysis is myopic . The 9700X is a better gamer, cost $50 less, and has an upgrade path = no brainer. The 7800X3D can be found on for sale/trade forums for under $400. We had 2 sell here recently. Even at $480 it would be a better buy. And of course hold value much better. The 9800X3D makes cost per frame bigger bar even better.I'd like to chime in against the grain here and say that the current pricing of the 265K for $379 on Amazon US is quite a deal. Considering on MT its at least on par and better than the 9900X which oddly enough has increased in price and is now selling at $439 on Amazon, up from $419 recently. Depending on other platform costs ( I havent looked), it might not be a bad choice.
Rapture Lake turned out to be a dumpster fire, as has been pointed out above.Yeah, 265K aint breaking any gaming records but neither is vanilla Zen 5 for that matter, and my personal experience with Zen 5 has still been a very positive one. I'd still recommend a 265k at the current price it over the power hungry and potentially degrading 14700K if given a choice between the two.
Its like the old adage: "There are no bad products, just bad prices".
Its like the old adage: "There are no bad products, just bad prices".
Obviously I missed the part where his build was for gaming-- I thought it was for general purpose use, lol. But indeed I was correct in its being price/perf competitive, even in games, with vanilla Zen 5 Ryzen 9 SKUs.15 second boot time is a non issue. It's looking for something to complain about. Leave it in sleep mode if you are that manic.
It is indeed a bad choice for gaming, and I think your analysis is myopic . The 9700X is a better gamer, cost $50 less, and has an upgrade path = no brainer. The 7800X3D can be found on for sale/trade forums for under $400. We had 2 sell here recently. Even at $480 it would be a better buy. And of course hold value much better. The 9800X3D makes cost per frame bigger bar even better.
Again, the only reason to choose arrow for gaming is purely emotional/amygdala making the decisions. Which is fine, but don't gaslight yourselves, the data, pricing, and one and done status, does not support any other conclusion.
I am not responding to you personally, you already have an opinion I am unlikely to change. I am using you as a foil to address lurkers and searchers, so they get the straight dope with the math to back it up.
View attachment 114059
Rapture Lake turned out to be a dumpster fire, as has been pointed out above.
OP can build arrow on nothing more than a whim if that's what they want to do. The retailer would certainly love to get a dust gathering board and CPU moved that's for sure.
Obviously I missed the part where his build was for gaming-- I thought it was for general purpose use, lol. But indeed I was correct in its being price/perf competitive, even in games, with vanilla Zen 5 Ryzen 9 SKUs.
The problem with your observation is not its accuracy, but rather its limited scope/myopia. For gaming builds, the Ryzen 9 vanilla series is never going to be a recommendation from anyone with a clue. It's the false dilemma fallacy; offering only those 2 options.Obviously I missed the part where his build was for gaming-- I thought it was for general purpose use, lol. But indeed I was correct in its being price/perf competitive, even in games, with vanilla Zen 5 Ryzen 9 SKUs.
If we evaluate by the chosen metric of no bad products, it is indeed a bad price. It is an unusually bad product, because it is the only known generation for the socket. That makes standard value metrics insufficient to the task of judging arrow. As of today, there will be no faster gaming CPUs for the platform, and it isn't even previous generation flagship level. It's the quintessential example of an e-waste throwaway platform released because they had to offer something. Why anyone would rationalize arrow as anything other than a Bulldozer level failure is perplexing. Even then, Vishera brought 10-20% performance uplift* the next year (* = Anand's review). Arrow doesn't even have that going for it.And I have said countless times how false that is. Power supplies that catch fire and degrading CPU's are bad products.
Recalls wouldn't be a thing if there weren't bad/defective products.