Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Tigerick · Aug 22, 2022

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	12 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	8P + 16E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	36 MB ?	12 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

511 · Jan 5, 2025

Kepler_L2 said:
It hits CPU bottlenecks even with Zen4.

This there is something wrong with drivers

LightningZ71 · Jan 5, 2025

IMHO, it's either a badly written driver, OR, it's the drivers having to do more work to compensate for another hardware deficiency...

Meteor Late · Jan 5, 2025

SiliconFly said:
Actually they also tested it with Ryzen 2000 series which shows a heavy drop. Thats clearly not recommended by the manufacturer.

They also tested with 3600, 5600, 5700X3D, etc, the drop is real, there is no excuse and there is no sensationalism.

511 · Jan 5, 2025

LightningZ71 said:
IMHO, it's either a badly written driver, OR, it's the drivers having to do more work to compensate for another hardware deficiency...

Or we have some sort of hacks for some things in drivers

igor_kavinski · Jan 5, 2025

I personally think that with APO and driver binaries specially compiled for Lion Cove/Skymont, the driver overhead won't be that much of an issue and this is what Intel cares about really. To sell this combination to OEMs by the thousands or millions. They don't give a crap about how good or bad it works on existing hardware and that would be expected given their limited software development resources. They gotta do triage and optimize for the future which is where the most money lies. I'm guessing the current BM shortage is also related to fulfilling huge B580/B570 orders for the big three (Dell, HP, Lenovo).

511 · Jan 5, 2025

igor_kavinski said:
I personally think that with APO and driver binaries specially compiled for Lion Cove/Skymont, the driver overhead won't be that much of an issue and this is what Intel cares about really. To sell this combination to OEMs by the thousands or millions. They don't give a crap about how good or bad it works on existing hardware and that would be expected given their limited software development resources. They gotta do triage and optimize for the future which is where the most money lies. I'm guessing the current BM shortage is also related to fulfilling huge B580/B570 orders for the big three (Dell, HP, Lenovo).

Not just LNC/SKT GLC/GMT as well and for the driver overhead it will be sorted out if it's a software fix or keep broken if it's a HW flaw

gaav87 · Jan 5, 2025

Anyone remember this setting ?
Maximum pre-rendered frames.
Maybe it's the culprit. like in the rtx1000-2000 days and even rx5000 series.
I remember setting this for overwatch in 2016 and it reduced cpu bottleneck by, A LOT

Gideon · Jan 5, 2025

SiliconFly said:
Actually they also tested it with Ryzen 2000 series which shows a heavy drop. Thats clearly not recommended by the manufacturer.

Just stop spreading fud. Yeah they also tested with Ryzen 2000 among others, but just look at this chart, will you:

Just look at this chart. Are you seriously claiming this is a "nothingburger" and the only issue here is HWUB's integrity?

SiliconFly said:
Hardware Unboxed just wants to sensationalize something which is clearly misleading.

Dropping below 4060 even with a Ryzen 7600 is a huge issue, totally worth mentioning. But surely noone is ever gonna pair this 250$ GPU with a mid/low range CPU right?

igor_kavinski · Jan 5, 2025

Gideon said:
But surely noone is ever gonna pair this 250$ GPU with a mid/low range CPU right?

Buy today and unlock full performance in three to four years with a next gen midrange CPU?

LightningZ71 · Jan 5, 2025

Another "Fine Wine?"

igor_kavinski · Jan 5, 2025

LightningZ71 said:
Another "Fine Wine?"

Raja Koduri drinks a lot!

AcrosTinus · Jan 5, 2025

Gideon said:
Just stop spreading fud. Yeah they also tested with Ryzen 2000 among others, but just look at this chart, will you:

Just look at this chart. Are you seriously claiming this is a "nothingburger" and the only issue here is HWUB's integrity?

Dropping below 4060 even with a Ryzen 7600 is a huge issue, totally worth mentioning. But surely noone is ever gonna pair this 250$ GPU with a mid/low range CPU right?

It is though, I know no one in my group that is eyeing a ARC card. Some are but for media encoding reasons or video editing due to the superior media engines. This performance has been on the market for years at a lower price with a 8GB RAM limitation.
For the money try shooting a used 3080 for a little more and you will be served for years as a casual.

DrMrLordX · Jan 6, 2025

igor_kavinski said:
Raja Koduri drinks a lot!

Um guess he likes a stogie too?

coercitiv · Jan 6, 2025

Since folsk are joking around about Raja, I'll afford a technically off-topic post myself. Asianometry recently published a very condensed and informative video recap of Intel's rise in the industry. I highly recommend it for anyone interested in a bird's eye view of Intel's history and modus operandi during the glory days.

poke01 · Jan 6, 2025

coercitiv said:
Since folsk are joking around about Raja, I'll afford a technically off-topic post myself. Asianometry recently published a very condensed and informative video recap of Intel's rise in the industry. I highly recommend it for anyone interested in a bird's eye view of Intel's history and modus operandi during the glory days.

Intel at its peak was from 2006-2012.

No one I mean no one could beat them, the only ones that could destroy Intel were themselves…

511 · Jan 6, 2025

coercitiv said:
Since folsk are joking around about Raja, I'll afford a technically off-topic post myself. Asianometry recently published a very condensed and informative video recap of Intel's rise in the industry. I highly recommend it for anyone interested in a bird's eye view of Intel's history and modus operandi during the glory days.

This Intel was something that striked fear in the heart of Even Huang it is never coming back

511 · Jan 6, 2025

poke01 said:
Intel at its peak was from 2006-2012.

No one I mean no one could beat them, the only ones that could destroy Intel were themselves…

BK was CEO from 2013-2018 🤣 he should get the credit don't you think @igor_kavinski you can blame him cause he never did a single good thing

511 · Jan 6, 2025

Lion Cove (Latency Destroys the core )

Analyzing Lion Cove's Memory Subsystem in Arrow Lake

A CPU core can perform very differently depending on the platform it's deployed in.

chipsandcheese.com

Hulk · Jan 6, 2025

poke01 said:
Intel at its peak was from 2006-2012.

No one I mean no one could beat them, the only ones that could destroy Intel were themselves…

Mission accomplished.

511 · Jan 6, 2025

Hulk said:
Mission accomplished.

All the heavy lifting was done by Brian kranzich and bunch of other dudes company destroyed and Brain rotted from the most innovative company to most brain rotted one.
And the dudes left after mission accomplished

igor_kavinski · Jan 6, 2025

511 said:
BK was CEO from 2013-2018 🤣 he should get the credit don't you think @igor_kavinski you can blame him cause he never did a single good thing

Not true.

Broadwell Core i7-5775C

So he did just one good thing and then screwed the pooch by not continuing it or improving upon it.

Hulk · Jan 6, 2025

511 said:
All the heavy lifting was done by Brian kranzich and bunch of other dudes company destroyed and Brain rotted from the most innovative company to most brain rotted one

I'm sure they're all super rich and laughing all the way to the bank.

Hulk · Jan 6, 2025

igor_kavinski said:
Not true.

Broadwell Core i7-5775C

So he did just one good thing and then screwed the pooch by not continuing it or improving upon it.

That part in reality didn't register as far as sales. By and large Broadwell was mobile only because Intel couldn't get 14nm clocks up to desktop levels from Haswell.

Broadwell and 14nm was the beginning of Intel's long slide into the abyss.

511 · Jan 6, 2025

igor_kavinski said:
Not true.

Broadwell Core i7-5775C

So he did just one good thing and then screwed the pooch by not continuing it or improving upon it.

14nm delayed by 6 month 10nm was delayed for like 4 years getting Quad Cores in his reign near to the end even a broken clock is right twice lmao and he even missed it he literally has more failures to his name than any other

LightningZ71 · Jan 6, 2025

Jut continuing the 5775C into the 6th generation could have given them quite an innovative product. I think that the biggest hurdle would have been their own pricing strategy. They would have charged more for that product than anormal 6th gen i7+ low end videocard, thus killing any value proposition it had against the alternative's performance.

The only place that it would have gotten traction would have been with Apple.

Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

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