Sound cards?

BoomerD · Jan 7, 2025

I have an MSI Z690 Tomahawk WIFi DDR4 motherboard. The built-in sound sucks…well, it’s decent when it works…but it often just stops working…requiring a reboot to get it going again. (Realtek ALC4080)
So…for the first time in 20 years, I’m thinking it’s time for some kind of sound card to resolve this.

I listen with Beyerdynamics DT880Pro 250 ohm headphones. The built-in sound will power them…but at low volume, so I use a FiiO K5PRO DAC/Amp connected to the board with a toslink/optical cable. (Monoprice) I tried connecting with a USB cable (A to B) just to see if the issue was with the optical output…no difference.

Internal sound cards…Sound Blaster, ASUS Xonar stuff…probably fine…but possible blocking of GPU airflow? (EVGA RTX3070 triple slot card)

External sound cards with DAC/Amp…will those still depend on the wonky built-in sound?

Oyeve · Jan 7, 2025

Can't help you as I use HDMI sound from my GPU to my 5.1 soundbar system connected to my TV. I haven't messed with a sound card for near 15 years. I do miss the quality of it tho.

balloonshark · Jan 7, 2025

Do you even need a sound card if you're using an external dac/amp? Are you sure it's not the quality of your music/game that is the problem? Since getting an audiophile quality dac/amp and headphones there are some things that just sound bad with a clean setup.

Bing's AI says this:

do you need a pc sound card pc if you're using headpone dac/amp?

Copilot said
Not necessarily
. A dedicated DAC/AMP combo can bypass your PC's sound card and often provides superior audio output. For many audiophiles, this is preferable because a standalone DAC/AMP unit usually has better components and is designed specifically for this purpose. However, if your PC sound card is well-performing, you might not notice a significant difference
.

It’s all about your ears and expectations. Whether you favor gaming, music, or casual listening, you can decide if an enhanced, standalone solution is worth it

BoomerD · Jan 8, 2025

balloonshark said:
Do you even need a sound card if you're using an external dac/amp? Are you sure it's not the quality of your music/game that is the problem? Since getting an audiophile quality dac/amp and headphones there are some things that just sound bad with a clean setup.

Bing's AI says this:

Well....MAYBE if I connected via USB, but, IIRC, the last time I tried it, I had the same problem. I don't know how "the quality of your music/game" would cause the sound output to stop. I can pause thevideo or game, go into the kitchen for a glass of water, come back...and the sound has stopped. The Windows sound panel says it's working...but there's zero sound...requiring a reboot to fix.
I've tried a variety of Realtek drivers, from MSI, Microsoft,and Realtek. None have made any diffence...this inquiring about a sound card.

Thump553 · Jan 8, 2025

Boomer-something is screwy in your system per my GAP (Guaranteed Amateur Pontification). I am a long term semi-audiophile as modified by being a lifetime cheap b*stard. My motherboard has Realtek audio and I haven't had any audio problems in years, if ever. I don't think I've used a soundcard for at least thirty years, probably longer.

Admittedly my advice is basically limited to two channel sound, as my computer is the base of my primary listening system. One bit of advice if your problem is two channel-after resisting DACs for years I broke down and bought a highly rated cheap ($80 list) DAC last fall, a SMSL SU-1. My desktop is my music source is FLAC files on the computer via USB to this DAC to my vintage two channel receiver (aka my daughter's old college system I dug out of the basement). It made a noticeable difference in sound quality, especially fatigue when long term listening-not a day/night difference, but a noticeable improvement.

My WAG is that you have some sort of conflict in your system. Is it going to sleep on your breaks? That may be the next place to check. If you can't figure it out then maybe a soundcard would be a workaround by blind luck. Good luck.

Edit: a thought just occurred to me-maybe the problem isn't in your computer at all-maybe your DAC/Amp is going to sleep during your breaks and the input from the computer isn't waking it up. Next time it happens try turrning the DAC/Amp off and on first before rebooting the computer. Some audio devices do this but if so they usually have some way to connect them to the source to trigger a wake on input (usually a separate wire) If that's the problem maybe the DAC/Amp manual can help or that mfr. You have already ruled out the problem is not the way your audio system is connected to the computer (optical or USB same problem).

BoomerD · Jan 8, 2025

Found some drivers and a "spdif fix" that's SUPPOSED to improve stability...we'll see.

Thump553 said:
Boomer-something is screwy in your system per my GAP (Guaranteed Amateur Pontification). I am a long term semi-audiophile as modified by being a lifetime cheap b*stard. My motherboard has Realtek audio and I haven't had any audio problems in years, if ever. I don't think I've used a soundcard for at least thirty years, probably longer.

Admittedly my advice is basically limited to two channel sound, as my computer is the base of my primary listening system. One bit of advice if your problem is two channel-after resisting DACs for years I broke down and bought a highly rated cheap ($80 list) DAC last fall, a SMSL SU-1. My desktop is my music source is FLAC files on the computer via USB to this DAC to my vintage two channel receiver (aka my daughter's old college system I dug out of the basement). It made a noticeable difference in sound quality, especially fatigue when long term listening-not a day/night difference, but a noticeable improvement.

My WAG is that you have some sort of conflict in your system. Is it going to sleep on your breaks? That may be the next place to check. If you can't figure it out then maybe a soundcard would be a workaround by blind luck. Good luck.

Edit: a thought just occurred to me-maybe the problem isn't in your computer at all-maybe your DAC/Amp is going to sleep during your breaks and the input from the computer isn't waking it up. Next time it happens try turrning the DAC/Amp off and on first before rebooting the computer. Some audio devices do this but if so they usually have some way to connect them to the source to trigger a wake on input (usually a separate wire) If that's the problem maybe the DAC/Amp manual can help or that mfr. You have already ruled out the problem is not the way your audio system is connected to the computer (optical or USB same problem).

Neither the PC nor DAC go to sleep. I’ve tried turning the DAC/Amp off when it happens, unplugged the power when it happens…no change. Apparently it’s a common issue with the Realtek 4080 sound chip. The MSI forums are full of people complaining about similar issues.
I’m going to have to try it connected via USB again, but I’ve changed my setup and my existing USB cables aren’t long enough for more than a test. The problem is just so intermittent that’s nearly impossible to “test.”

Thump553 · Jan 10, 2025

Sounds like it is a really frustrating problem. I can't think of anything else beside the sound card. Do you have a graveyard of old computers/computer parts that might have an old soundcard in it? I'm so bad that I even have parallel despite having never needed one since 1989 or so. If so I bet there is at least one soundcard in there.

BoomerD · Jan 12, 2025

Thump553 said:
Sounds like it is a really frustrating problem. I can't think of anything else beside the sound card. Do you have a graveyard of old computers/computer parts that might have an old soundcard in it? I'm so bad that I even have parallel despite having never needed one since 1989 or so. If so I bet there is at least one soundcard in there.

Nah, I junked all my old stuff 12 years ago when we moved out of CA. Haven't used a sound card since...Windows Vista or so.

Right now, things are running fine...just like they always do...until they don't. Time will tell if the drivers and Realtek "fix" made a difference.

I took a close, careful look. My video card nearly covers the PCI-e slot below it and the 3rd slot sits below the PSU shield in my case. I can't raise the motherboard tray to gain access to that bottom slot because thee AIO cooler/radiator/fans take up too much room...wiring and such wouldn't clear.
No way to use a sound card without changing the case and/or going to an air cooler.

tcsenter · Jan 14, 2025

Since you are using SPDIF/Toslink to DAC, digital is digital man. Buy anything cheap that supports PCI Express and has drivers for Windows 10 at least.

Asus Xonar SE 5.1 has digital out and drivers for Windows 10/11.

You could also check this Windows 11 compatibility list from Creative and find a deal on a used Sound Blaster model than supports digital out and Windows 10/11.

Looks like many people having troubles with this USB based Realtek 4080 controller/codec, even ASUS boards.

BoomerD · Jan 14, 2025

tcsenter said:
Since you are using SPDIF/Toslink to DAC, digital is digital man. Buy anything cheap that supports PCI Express and has drivers for Windows 10 at least.

Asus Xonar SE 5.1 has digital out and drivers for Windows 10/11.

You could also check this Windows 11 compatibility list from Creative and find a deal on a used Sound Blaster model than supports digital out and Windows 10/11.

Looks like many people having troubles with this USB based Realtek 4080 controller/codec, even ASUS boards.

Yes, it appears to be a common problem…but there’s no room in my massive case for a sound card. The 3-slot GPU takes up so much space that in slot 2, the sound card would be crammed right up against the GPU…IF it would fit at all, and the PSU shield in the bottom covers up slot 3.

For now, the newest drivers and “realtek SPDIF fix” are working…until they don’t.

MangoX · Jan 14, 2025

I haven't used a sound card since I purchased my USB dac, which is a SMSL SU9. Of course you don't need something as pricey as that, but I consider myself an entry level audiophile with a amp/preamp stack and Kef LS50s.

Anyways I would look up USB dacs. Pricing is all over from cheap to expensive depending on the dac chip, and what features you require (ie: just regular stereo rca, toslink/spdif, xlr balanced, mqa decoding/bluetooth etc).

I'd recommend the Topping D10 if on a slight budget. It features an ESS Sabre and is highly rated for the price.

Topping D10 Balanced Review (USB DAC)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the new Topping D10 Balanced. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $139. The D10 Balanced as the name implies, comes in my favorite USB DAC package with the same cute orange display: Back panel is where the difference is: Balanced...

www.audiosciencereview.com

tcsenter · Jan 14, 2025

The ASUS Xonar 5.1 is low profile ready/card, smallest you'll probably find. If that can't fit, you are not looking for a "card". That only leaves an external USB DAC.

BoomerD · Jan 15, 2025

MangoX said:
I haven't used a sound card since I purchased my USB dac, which is a SMSL SU9. Of course you don't need something as pricey as that, but I consider myself an entry level audiophile with a amp/preamp stack and Kef LS50s.

Anyways I would look up USB dacs. Pricing is all over from cheap to expensive depending on the dac chip, and what features you require (ie: just regular stereo rca, toslink/spdif, xlr balanced, mqa decoding/bluetooth etc).

I'd recommend the Topping D10 if on a slight budget. It features an ESS Sabre and is highly rated for the price.

Topping D10 Balanced Review (USB DAC)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the new Topping D10 Balanced. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $139. The D10 Balanced as the name implies, comes in my favorite USB DAC package with the same cute orange display: Back panel is where the difference is: Balanced...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Topping makes nice stuff…

This is the one I’ve used for the past couple of years:

Review and Measurements of Fiio K5 Pro

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Fiio K5 Pro DAC and headphone amplifier. It was kindly sent to me by the company. The K5 Pro is a budget product, costing US $150 on Amazon with free shipping. The Fiio K5 looks decent and sports a nice, large volume knob which I appreciated...

www.audiosciencereview.com

DaaQ · Jan 15, 2025

BoomerD said:
Yes, it appears to be a common problem…but there’s no room in my massive case for a sound card. The 3-slot GPU takes up so much space that in slot 2, the sound card would be crammed right up against the GPU…IF it would fit at all, and the PSU shield in the bottom covers up slot 3.

For now, the newest drivers and “realtek SPDIF fix” are working…until they don’t.

Might not be understanding your setup, but you can put 1xpcie card into a x16 slot and t "used" to be fine or something similar to a Sound Blaster X g6 should work fine. Won it from OCN back in the day, actually 2 but they had to withhold the 2nd.

bigboxes · Jan 16, 2025

Oyeve said:
Can't help you as I use HDMI sound from my GPU to my 5.1 soundbar system connected to my TV. I haven't messed with a sound card for near 15 years. I do miss the quality of it tho.

Dude. Soundbar? LOL

bigboxes · Jan 16, 2025

I've been building custom PCs for 25 years now. I really don't use soundcards and more unless I'm asked to. I've got 3+ soundcards sitting in a box that I'm just not using. The onboard for most is adequate today. I have a high end mobo and it goes directly to my self powered 2.0 speakers and it sounds phenomenal. My HTPC just uses the mobo's optical out to my receiver. Let the $2K receiver do the work.

BoomerD · Jan 16, 2025

DaaQ said:
Might not be understanding your setup, but you can put 1xpcie card into a x16 slot and t "used" to be fine or something similar to a Sound Blaster X g6 should work fine. Won it from OCN back in the day, actually 2 but they had to withhold the 2nd.

That was the subject of this thread...unfortunately, the lay out of my case won't let me do it. No room with a 3 slot GPU blocking slot 2, and a PSU shield covering slot 3. Maybe I can get a photo during daylight hours so folks can understand the problem

bigboxes said:
I've been building custom PCs for 25 years now. I really don't use soundcards and more unless I'm asked to. I've got 3+ soundcards sitting in a box that I'm just not using. The onboard for most is adequate today. I have a high end mobo and it goes directly to my self powered 2.0 speakers and it sounds phenomenal. My HTPC just uses the mobo's optical out to my receiver. Let the $2K receiver do the work.

I used the built-in sound in my custom built PCs for a couple of decades. For MOST purposes, it's usually fine. I do my listening through 250 ohm headphones however...and the motherboard's sound chip just won't power them. Thus the FiiO K5 Pro DAC/Amp. The problem is that the motherboard just stops putting out sound. The Windows sound settings (see below) will say it's working...but there's zero output. This is a PITA intermittent problem. It will work just peachy...until it stops...then I have to exit the game I'm playing...or movie/show I'm watching, reboot the PC...and it's fine again. Might work just fine for a few days or even weeks...then, zip, zilch, nada.

DaaQ · Jan 16, 2025

BoomerD said:
That was the subject of this thread...unfortunately, the lay out of my case won't let me do it. No room with a 3 slot GPU blocking slot 2, and a PSU shield covering slot 3. Maybe I can get a photo during daylight hours so folks can understand the problem

I used the built-in sound in my custom built PCs for a couple of decades. For MOST purposes, it's usually fine. I do my listening through 250 ohm headphones however...and the motherboard's sound chip just won't power them. Thus the FiiO K5 Pro DAC/Amp. The problem is that the motherboard just stops putting out sound. The Windows sound settings (see below) will say it's working...but there's zero output. This is a PITA intermittent problem. It will work just peachy...until it stops...then I have to exit the game I'm playing...or movie/show I'm watching, reboot the PC...and it's fine again. Might work just fine for a few days or even weeks...then, zip, zilch, nada.

View attachment 115043

Ahh, see my issue is I have to switch to headphones with mic, went usb with those. Was just a ton easier than fixing stuff when my son wanted to play WOW classic using discord or whatever TF. So would have to switch settings back to speakers, for output, or "what you hear" then change in D4 from speakers to headset.
That external Creative Sound Blaster Xg6 is a nice compact setup, came with 1/8 cables for stereo and a separate for mic. IIIRC. I can actually plug it all into my headset and it works from the sound card, SB Z series, but I am tethered.
Oh the hugest downfall on this particular item, I am sure is because of age, is the micro USB connection on device side. Wouldn't be surprised if there are USB-C versions now.

They have kept drivers and software up to date surprisingly.

BoomerD · Jan 17, 2025

DaaQ said:
Ahh, see my issue is I have to switch to headphones with mic, went usb with those. Was just a ton easier than fixing stuff when my son wanted to play WOW classic using discord or whatever TF. So would have to switch settings back to speakers, for output, or "what you hear" then change in D4 from speakers to headset.
That external Creative Sound Blaster Xg6 is a nice compact setup, came with 1/8 cables for stereo and a separate for mic. IIIRC. I can actually plug it all into my headset and it works from the sound card, SB Z series, but I am tethered.
Oh the hugest downfall on this particular item, I am sure is because of age, is the micro USB connection on device side. Wouldn't be surprised if there are USB-C versions now.

They have kept drivers and software up to date surprisingly.

I don't mind being tethered by my headphones. I LOVE the sound through the beyerdynamic DT880 Pros.

igor_kavinski · Jan 18, 2025

BoomerD said:
Found some drivers and a "spdif fix" that's SUPPOSED to improve stability...we'll see.

Still no issues? So the problem solved? How frequently was the issue happening before?

If you think the problem is solved, maybe share the links to the fix/drivers so anyone else with the same problem can avoid hair pulling?

bigboxes · Jan 18, 2025

BoomerD said:
That was the subject of this thread...unfortunately, the lay out of my case won't let me do it. No room with a 3 slot GPU blocking slot 2, and a PSU shield covering slot 3. Maybe I can get a photo during daylight hours so folks can understand the problem

I used the built-in sound in my custom built PCs for a couple of decades. For MOST purposes, it's usually fine. I do my listening through 250 ohm headphones however...and the motherboard's sound chip just won't power them. Thus the FiiO K5 Pro DAC/Amp. The problem is that the motherboard just stops putting out sound. The Windows sound settings (see below) will say it's working...but there's zero output. This is a PITA intermittent problem. It will work just peachy...until it stops...then I have to exit the game I'm playing...or movie/show I'm watching, reboot the PC...and it's fine again. Might work just fine for a few days or even weeks...then, zip, zilch, nada.

View attachment 115043

I totally get the need for a soundcard to drive headphones. I don't use them. I don't have to be quiet for anyone. 😁

BoomerD · Jan 18, 2025

igor_kavinski said:
Still no issues? So the problem solved? How frequently was the issue happening before?

If you think the problem is solved, maybe share the links to the fix/drivers so anyone else with the same problem can avoid hair pulling?

I have no idea if it's fixed or not. The problem might not crop up for a couple of weeks...or it might happen a couple of times per day. Works fine...until it doesn't. Only time will tell.

Muadib · Jan 18, 2025

BoomerD said:
I have no idea if it's fixed or not. The problem might not crop up for a couple of weeks...or it might happen a couple of times per day. Works fine...until it doesn't. Only time will tell.

Left click on the speaker in the task bar, then left click the sound output thing at the bottom right, how many outputs are there? When you don't have sound on your headphones, are they still the choice, or is it something else? BTW this is with Windows 11. It's basically the same with Windows 10, but not exactly.

DaaQ · Jan 18, 2025

bigboxes said:
I totally get the need for a soundcard to drive headphones. I don't use them. I don't have to be quiet for anyone. 😁

Yea, my nephew in law? or the younger version of that, was over and I played a video of LM and de lidding and normal setting is 2 for volume. I turned it to 8 for him to experience.

Although I have 5.1 M-Audiio surround setup, (had to get cables from guitar center lol) and he couldn't believe the output.

BoomerD · Jan 19, 2025

Muadib said:
Left click on the speaker in the task bar, then left click the sound output thing at the bottom right, how many outputs are there? When you don't have sound on your headphones, are they still the choice, or is it something else? BTW this is with Windows 11. It's basically the same with Windows 10, but not exactly.

Shows two outputs, Realtek digital and Dell monitor. (which has no speakers, but does have sound output)
When the glitch…glitches, Windows still sys it’s working…but there’s no sound.
Apparently it’s a fairly common issue with the Realtek ALC4080 chip.

Sound cards?

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