Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Tigerick · Aug 22, 2022

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	12 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	8P + 16E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	36 MB ?	12 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

dttprofessor · Jan 13, 2025

Not everyone have known LNL is the best CPU for thin laptop, MT is nothing for thin laptop.

511 · Jan 13, 2025

ARL/MTL Bain of existence the SOC architecture

511 · Jan 13, 2025

https://twitter.com/x/status/1878864913772499151

Markfw · Jan 13, 2025

511 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1878864913772499151

Oh, WOW, now you can kill Intel CPUs with Intel software !

poke01 · Jan 13, 2025

Hitman928 said:
More tests. Seems the ARL-H laptop is running at a much higher TDP than the rest in these tests (based on R23 nT score).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1878568819842859222

This is not impressive. ARL-H is meh. Please wait for PTL and if that sucks just move to AMD/NV/Qualcomm. /s

But seriously PTL-H has to be good, late 2025/2026 will have lots of laptop sillicon vendors competing.

adroc_thurston · Jan 13, 2025

poke01 said:
But seriously PTL-H has to be good

The iGP is. Rest, uh.

DrMrLordX · Jan 14, 2025

Markfw said:
Oh, WOW, now you can kill Intel CPUs with Intel software !

Pretty sure you could always do that with XTU. IPO seems aimed at system integrators. Which surprises me.

511 · Jan 14, 2025

adroc_thurston said:
The iGP is. Rest, uh.

The media engines and Darkmont as well the only thing worse is Cougar Cove

adroc_thurston · Jan 14, 2025

511 said:
The media engines and Darkmont as well the only thing worse is Cougar Cove

Darkmont is omega nothingburger.

DavidC1 · Jan 14, 2025

511 said:
The media engines and Darkmont as well the only thing worse is Cougar Cove

Darkmont is a very small gain, just like Crestmont was. Cougar Cove is going to be better relative than Lion Cove, as the gains are almost as much.

coercitiv · Jan 14, 2025

DrMrLordX said:
Pretty sure you could always do that with XTU. IPO seems aimed at system integrators. Which surprises me.

So they're trying to keep system integrators from switching to AMD en masse. It looks weird for us, but makes perfect sense from their perspective.

511 · Jan 14, 2025

DavidC1 said:
Darkmont is a very small gain, just like Crestmont was. Cougar Cove is going to be better relative than Lion Cove, as the gains are almost as much.

I disagree for the form factor Darkmont is better if it was in Desktop yes but they will be lackluster

DrMrLordX · Jan 14, 2025

coercitiv said:
So they're trying to keep system integrators from switching to AMD en masse. It looks weird for us, but makes perfect sense from their perspective.

After the Raptor Lake fiasco, would any sane system integrator accept an "optimization" tool from Intel? When it just overclocks things?

DavidC1 · Jan 14, 2025

poke01 said:
This is not impressive. ARL-H is meh. Please wait for PTL and if that sucks just move to AMD/NV/Qualcomm. /s

But seriously PTL-H has to be good, late 2025/2026 will have lots of laptop sillicon vendors competing.

What's wrong with people? Nvidia and Intel both straight up lying. Nvidia talking literal copies of frames as a "new tech" and says 5070 = 4090 while Intel claims ARL-H beats everything hiding that it uses much more power to do so. It means there are literally hundreds and even thousands of people complicit in being straight up lies.

At peak power ARL-H takes more than twice the power as AMD for basically the same performance.

I don't like Robert Hallock either. He pretty much lied regarding ARL firmware. It does nothing, as expected. Probably he was Chief of Liars at AMD too.

igor_kavinski · Jan 14, 2025

DavidC1 said:
I don't like Robert Hallock either.

I feel sorry for the guy. He has the exact same job now that he had at AMD. Making up excuses for the engineers' shortcomings. He obviously must not like it because he doesn't seem like the boisterous type who takes pride in lying through his teeth but has to because that's what he signed up for and it pays enough that he can't think of starting from scratch doing something else.

DavidC1 · Jan 14, 2025

igor_kavinski said:
I feel sorry for the guy. He has the exact same job now that he had at AMD. Making up excuses for the engineers' shortcomings.

I don't feel sorry for him. Not at all. If you are in a top position, you are responsible for many more things.

And the shortcoming you are talking about is because Intel is such a disjointed company that even Gelsinger wasn't able to fix. Actually, he was responsible for the modern Intel marketing nonsense.

To think I was inspired to go into electronics thanks to Intel. It boggles my mind.

coercitiv · Jan 14, 2025

DrMrLordX said:
After the Raptor Lake fiasco, would any sane system integrator accept an "optimization" tool from Intel? When it just overclocks things?

Yes, they need to learn the lesson twice.

DavidC1 said:
What's wrong with people? Nvidia and Intel both straight up lying.

This is the new meta. It's derived straight from politics (and this will be my only reference of that) and will not stop until it becomes very very painful at societal level, not just in some isolated country but everywhere.

Every tech company I interact with is getting acquainted with the taste of lying. It's so alluring when it costs them nothing.

dttprofessor · Jan 14, 2025

DavidC1 said:
What's wrong with people? Nvidia and Intel both straight up lying. Nvidia talking literal copies of frames as a "new tech" and says 5070 = 4090 while Intel claims ARL-H beats everything hiding that it uses much more power to do so. It means there are literally hundreds and even thousands of people complicit in being straight up lies.

At peak power ARL-H takes more than twice the power as AMD for basically the same performance.

I don't like Robert Hallock either. He pretty much lied regarding ARL firmware. It does nothing, as expected. Probably he was Chief of Liars at AMD too.

lnl has more mt?
9800x3d has more mt?

DavidC1 · Jan 14, 2025

coercitiv said:
This is the new meta. It's derived straight from politics (and this will be my only reference of that) and will not stop until it becomes very very painful at societal level, not just in some isolated country but everywhere.

Politics or not it's just lying. And people just accept it. Yes it's the new "meta" the new "I don't have a problem with that".

There will be an end to this, because foundation built on lies will fail. Just a matter of time. The whole system is corrupt from top(leaders) to bottom(average people).

SiliconFly · Jan 14, 2025

511 · Jan 14, 2025

DavidC1 said:
To think I was inspired to go into electronics thanks to Intel. It boggles my mind.

Same it will never be the same Intel that once was just taken over by bunch of bean counters

SiliconFly · Jan 14, 2025

igor_kavinski · Jan 14, 2025

DavidC1 said:
The whole system is corrupt from top(leaders) to bottom(average people).

That's very true. I hate it every time I say something obvious and true in meetings and people go silent like "Dude, do you really have to say that? We know but no one here wants to admit it!".

igor_kavinski · Jan 14, 2025

SiliconFly said:
Don't worry. More bean counters are coming in to finish what Bob Swan started.

We should've a new CEO in six months! Someone here said the external firm they hired for the search won't get paid otherwise.

511 · Jan 14, 2025

igor_kavinski said:
We should've a new CEO in six months! Someone here said the external firm they hired for the search won't get paid otherwise.

they better find a good one probably some Hardworking Taiwanese CEO or someone who is capable and have technical expertise

Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

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