Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

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biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
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fastandfurious6

Senior member
Jun 1, 2024
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Don't need to really. 13th and 14 Gen are cheap, Strix is not.

strix (8+4 core) laptops around $2k

legion 5 with 9955hx + rtx5060 at $1.3k - literally entire 9950x running slightly lower clocks

9950x is literally the best client cpu in the world by far (except its own 3D versions lol)

they limit the 9950x laptop to legion 5, the cheaper version, while legion 7 is only intel / arl-h, no AMD

doesn't make sense at all
 

fastandfurious6

Senior member
Jun 1, 2024
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legion 5 with 9955hx + rtx5060 at $1.3k - literally entire 9950x running slightly lower clocks

this is basically the cheapest way to get a 9950x + 5060 gaming computer...
and it's a full laptop with OLED

just ran a custom 9950x desktop config in 3 countries, the cheapest is USA at $1.6k, all cheapest parts and rtx4060

gaming performance difference between desktop laptop will be like 20% at best/worst

no point buying desktops anymore unless super high end


and why the frick retailers are gimping 9950x laptops so hard...
 
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Rigg

Senior member
May 6, 2020
607
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legion 5 with 9955hx + rtx5060 at $1.3k
Where are you getting this price? All I could find on pricing was a note in this article from ultrabook review.

Price: from $1399 for R9 + RTX 5060 configuration, expected around summer 2025

I'd assume that "R9" in that description means 9850HX for that config.

this is basically the cheapest way to get a 9950x + 5060 gaming computer...
and it's a full laptop with OLED

just ran a custom 9950x desktop config in 3 countries, the cheapest is USA at $1.6k, all cheapest parts and rtx4060

gaming performance difference between desktop laptop will be like 20% at best/worst

no point buying desktops anymore unless super high end


and why the frick retailers are gimping 9950x laptops so hard...
In my experience "desktop replacement" laptops like this aren't actually good desktop replacements, and also don't make for very good laptops either. They're essentially conveniently portable mini desktops with gimped thermals and power limits compared to a proper desktop. Mobile GPUs often don't even use the same die as the desktop GPUs they share a name with. Performance of the same GPU/CPU can be all over the place on mobile platforms depending on how the power limits are configured by the OEM. While I agree with you that it's a pretty good value proposition on paper, I'd take a $1400 DIY desktop over a laptop like that any day of the week for gaming or light workstation use unless the portability factor was critical.

You'd have to be more specific than "gaming performance difference between desktop laptop will be like 20% at best/worst". That bit of conjecture is completely meaningless without specifics. What's being compared?
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
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I finally secured a 9800X3D @ retail.
It was not easy, and i had to combo it with a X870E motherboard, which isn't too bad because i needed a good motherboard anyhow.

So i have my core ready for my gaming setup.
Now round two fighting scalpers for the 5090 when it launches....

And my brother needs a new system too, so i may end up giving the 9800X3D and getting a 9950X3D for myself if i can secure one. But that would mean round 3 with scalpers.
 

fastandfurious6

Senior member
Jun 1, 2024
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You'd have to be more specific than "gaming performance difference between desktop laptop will be like 20% at best/worst". That bit of conjecture is completely meaningless without specifics. What's being compared?

compare

7945hx + 4060m laptop
vs
7950x + 4060 desktop

etc

the average delta is 20% in games
pure cpu diff is like 5% average - the main difference is u cannot really overclock the laptop cpu


> unless portability factor critical

you can't travel with a desktop.....

you can take a laptop anywhere

at similar price and similar performance why not just laptop

even if u travel only few weeks per year why have laptop only for those weeks
 

Thunder 57

Diamond Member
Aug 19, 2007
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compare

7945hx + 4060m laptop
vs
7950x + 4060 desktop

etc

the average delta is 20% in games
pure cpu diff is like 5% average - the main difference is u cannot really overclock the laptop cpu


> unless portability factor critical

you can't travel with a desktop.....

you can take a laptop anywhere

at similar price and similar performance why not just laptop

even if u travel only few weeks per year why have laptop only for those weeks

Not everyone wants to lug around a bulky heavy power hungry laptop as their mobile device.
 

Rigg

Senior member
May 6, 2020
607
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compare

7945hx + 4060m laptop
vs
7950x + 4060 desktop

etc

the average delta is 20% in games
pure cpu diff is like 5% average - the main difference is u cannot really overclock the laptop cpu

Compare them where? TPU has it at a 30% in favor of the 4060 on desktop. 5% CPU difference is nonsense unless you're talking single thread. Benchmarks such as CB23, CB24, and GB6 multi are 22%, 28%, and 28% in favor of the 7950x vs the 7945hx according to CPU-monkey. What laptops even come in a 7945hx + 4060m config and how much do they currently cost? Where are you getting your $1300 price for a 9955hx + rtx5060? I'm skeptical we'll see this config for that MSRP price, but I'm happy to be wrong if you've got a link to share.

at similar price and similar performance why not just laptop

even if u travel only few weeks per year why have laptop only for those weeks

Because 20-30% difference in performance isn't similar and there are downsides to use something like this as a desktop replacement when you aren't traveling. There are comparable alternatives for mobile gaming that will be much better for general daily laptop use that cost less money. An R9 desktop CPU paired with a 4060 is a pretty unbalanced system in the direction of CPU performance which makes it pretty subpar as gaming machine for this kind of money. Many people want a better gaming experience than a 4060 mobile can provide, and that's generally cheaper to get on a desktop. This seems like a pretty niche config with a ton of obvious tradeoffs to use as a desktop replacement or daily driver laptop.
 
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StefanR5R

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2016
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fastandfurious6

Senior member
Jun 1, 2024
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trust me if normal people realized the performance, convenience and price of today's desktop replacements the desktop market would plunge

2.5kg 16'' is nowhere near bulky or heavy (but 3.5kg is)
 

uzzi38

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 2019
2,709
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trust me if normal people realized the performance, convenience and price of today's desktop replacements the desktop market would plunge

2.5kg 16'' is nowhere near bulky or heavy (but 3.5kg is)
Depends very significantly on the user.

I'd be willing to bet most people would rather have their laptop be a laptop and their desktop be a desktop, and not have a device that's rubbish at both roles instead.
 

fastandfurious6

Senior member
Jun 1, 2024
306
398
96
not have a device that's rubbish at both roles instead.
See you just proved my point, even pros think desktop replacements are "rubbish at both roles" when they're in fact excellent at both roles

they USED TO BE rubbish at both roles and everyone will agree to that, up until zen 2 changed the landscape

have you tried a 7945hx 2.5kg laptop? or even a 7840hs 2kg
 

fastandfurious6

Senior member
Jun 1, 2024
306
398
96
ontopic point is, if not by zen6 then by zen7 desktops will start becoming extinct except for enthusiast overclockers

the market of course will try to still exist because money but there will be not much incentive
 

leoneazzurro

Golden Member
Jul 26, 2016
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Depends very significantly on the user.

I'd be willing to bet most people would rather have their laptop be a laptop and their desktop be a desktop, and not have a device that's rubbish at both roles instead.
It depends on what you want to do really. I need to have a laptop because I have no room in my apartment where I can put a desktop so my work and game place is the couch. And my current laptop in terms of power is not a lightweight, a 13900HX as a CPU, a 4080 mobile as GPU with a 175W power limit. I can play with just every AAA title out there, with some compromises also many desktop have. And I can bring it with me as it's 3,5 Kg power supply included. It may be connected to large screens or good keyboards if needed. So all in all is mostly driven by preferences and needs.
And regarding AMD, the new generation with Fire Range paired with the new mobile GPUs will keep the bar high, a 16 core Zen5 (or even with X3D tech) will be for sure a very powerful CPU and the new mobile parts from Nvidia that in some cases seem to have raised the bar more than their desktop counterparts. I wish only that AMD gains market share in this sector because they have the best gaming CPUs at the moment by far and I would not mind to go after a Fire Range for the next update.
 
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leoneazzurro

Golden Member
Jul 26, 2016
1,071
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And I never said they will replace the desktops, but for most uses or when you have no place to put a full desktop workstation a good laptop is perfectly fine. If you want to have the best benchmark score or you have heavy-duty tasks or expandability needs of course a desktop is the way to go. But try to put a desktop on a couch, or maybe you need to travel frequently...
Also about economics: difference in cost between gaming desktops and laptops is no more so big like on the past, in some cases you can get very good deals on laptops. What is better in desktops nowadays is the capability to upgrade only some parts.

Apart from that, I just read news that XMG (and thus all barebone distributors) this year will have a lineup which will include Fire Range CPUs and X3D parts as well. Not bad, last year even if Zen4 CPUs were very competitive AMD could not manage to put a feet in that market.
 
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Thunder 57

Diamond Member
Aug 19, 2007
3,283
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trust me if normal people realized the performance, convenience and price of today's desktop replacements the desktop market would plunge

2.5kg 16'' is nowhere near bulky or heavy (but 3.5kg is)

I travel fairly often, sometimes for over two weeks at a time. I can't remember the last time I brought even a thin and light laptop with me. A tablet does the job just fine these days. Also odds are a will be lugging around my DSLR and who knows how many lenses for that. Last thing I want is a laptop bag to have to deal with as well. And when I am home nothing beats a desktop. Why bother with a laptop if I'm just going to put it in a docking station anywa?

I'm nbot saying my solution works for everyone or that yours has no merit. I am just explaining why my preferences.
 

eek2121

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2005
3,202
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Everyone has their own preference.

I have both a gaming laptop and a desktop. I use the desktop at home and the laptop while traveling.

That may change one day, but not today.

One big issue is the lack of user upgradable memory. Laptops also trail behind in terms of performance. The 9955HX trails behind the 9950X, for example. The mobile GPUs are also a good 30-40% slower. They also have fewer USB ports, no upgradability for the GPU/CPU, etc.

Framework solves some of that, but the rest is still an issue.

A mini ITX system with a 5090, 9950X3D, and good low latency DDR5-8000 memory will running circles around even the fastest laptop.

That being said, I think Strix Halo is going to spice things up a bit. We will see what partners do with designs.
 

uzzi38

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 2019
2,709
6,452
146
See you just proved my point, even pros think desktop replacements are "rubbish at both roles" when they're in fact excellent at both roles

they USED TO BE rubbish at both roles and everyone will agree to that, up until zen 2 changed the landscape

have you tried a 7945hx 2.5kg laptop? or even a 7840hs 2kg
You call them "excellent" at both roles, but anything with a 7945HX gets like 3-4 hours battery life tops. That's not what I'd call "excellent" as a laptop, that's what I'd call "absolutely dog-water".

7840HS laptops are different, but those can't be considered "desktop replacements" anyway. I can see a genuine mass-market usecase for these, because they don't compromise on battery life, remain reasonably portable and provide good performance on the go. But they don't match up to a full desktop in CPU performance whatsoever.

If I wanted something that was actually desktop class, I'd only consider something with Strix Halo or M4 Pro/Max (although I'd rule out the latter personally because I hate MacOS). Eventually more manufacturers are going to launch similar kinds of products, but for now those are the only two options I would consider.
 
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