Discussion Future ARM Cortex + Neoverse µArchs Discussion

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MS_AT

Senior member
Jul 15, 2024
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I thought the 1GHz rumor was for the GPU not the CPU cores.
I cannot vouch for accuracy, found mentions on hackernews. I mean it seems so low that its hard to believe tbh, on the other hand the same leak specified a docked cpu clock at 1.1GHz.

Still its Nintendo, so wouldn't surprise me if this ends up true
 

DZero

Senior member
Jun 20, 2024
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That would mean NIntendo is very conservative on what are doing? Or they are reserving the extra power for their own games?
 

Panino Manino

Senior member
Jan 28, 2017
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I didn't wanted much, only at least 1.5GHz, that would be good enough.
But this is Nintendo, they aim for the WORSE hardware possible.
 
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Meteor Late

Senior member
Dec 15, 2023
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I cannot vouch for accuracy, found mentions on hackernews. I mean it seems so low that its hard to believe tbh, on the other hand the same leak specified a docked cpu clock at 1.1GHz.

Still its Nintendo, so wouldn't surprise me if this ends up true

I mean, 1.1GHz CPU clock I find it impossible, one needs to look at the speeds Smartphone vendors got with these cores. Samsung 8nm is not TSMC 7nm, but 1.1GHz? that's just ridiculous.
 

DZero

Senior member
Jun 20, 2024
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I mean, 1.1GHz CPU clock I find it impossible, one needs to look at the speeds Smartphone vendors got with these cores. Samsung 8nm is not TSMC 7nm, but 1.1GHz? that's just ridiculous.
We talk about Nintendo, they are capable to pull it and still overheating.

Samsung sub 10 nm fabs are far from good. Even SMIC pull better thermals.

I can see it: first Nintendo games will depend on GPU instead of CPU in order to compensate it. And yeah, there are big chances to be emulated by the hackers.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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That is interesting because i would have expected they will be using DLSS a LOT for keep the gpu power down. But for games you do need two strong cores... there is no way around it. Specially for the games that will be ported over. (like everything thats not a Nintendo game)
 

DZero

Senior member
Jun 20, 2024
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That is interesting because i would have expected they will be using DLSS a LOT for keep the gpu power down. But for games you do need two strong cores... there is no way around it. Specially for the games that will be ported over. (like everything thats not a Nintendo game)
Aka Genshin Impact and all chinese Gacha games... it would hurt a lot seeing how the Nintendo will suffer because of it.
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
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That is interesting because i would have expected they will be using DLSS a LOT for keep the gpu power down. But for games you do need two strong cores... there is no way around it. Specially for the games that will be ported over. (like everything thats not a Nintendo game)
Most of the minimum specs for mobile games are throttle phones. Which have a 32-bit memory bus, 4x Cortex A73 @ 1.8 GHz, 64~128 ALU iGPU @ 600 MHz.

There is several big IPs on Switch 1. With no major issues. The side that is actually critical for handhelds is just the GPU and memory speed.

Crysis Trilogy, Warframe, DC Universe Online, Palia, Ace Combat 7, No Man's Sky, etc. On a Cortex-A57 @ ~1 GHz and Maxwell @ 307.2 MHz. Hacked (lineage os) Switch 1.0 w/o overclocking (stuck in handheld mode) can run lowest setting of Genshin and Wuthering Waves.

Switch 1: 4x Cortex-A57 @ ~1 GHz + 2x Maxwell 2.0 SMs @ ~0.3 GHz, ~25.6 GB/s
Switch 2: 8x Cortex-A78 @ ~1 GHz + 12x Ampere SMs @ ~0.56 GHz, ~68 GB/s

It isn't going to be that big of a deal. Isn't the effective instruction-level parallelism boost equivalent to...
8x Cortex-A57 @ ~4+ GHz
8x Cortex-A72/A73 @ ~2.1+ GHz

I am pretty sure the data for overkill phones running at 30 fps/60 Hz rr or 60 fps/90 Hz rr. The cores would not be running at the max clocks stated.
Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 (Genshin Impact) at sub-5w SoC = 1x 1.2 GHz(X2) + 3x 1.2 GHz(A710) + 4x 1.1 GHz (A510), seems to be the average. That is the average, for it to be that low means significant time is actually spent below 900 MHz. I went back even further to Unisoc T612, the fastest core rapidly fluctuates between 700 MHz to 1500 MHz on Zenless Zone Zero. However, it could be held back by the Mali-G57 MP1. I don't think people realize how little is needed to run these games. Even an Exynos 850 (just Cortex-A55) can play Genshin && Wuthering Waves. However, good luck with that <10 fps.
 
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DZero

Senior member
Jun 20, 2024
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158
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Well.. while with Genshin can be true... with Star Rail it needs more GPU power.


And funny story Hoyoverse could release Honkai Star Rail for Switch with massive modifications.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Its not that you need "very little" they are upscaling like crazy, and its not so hard to upscale to 6" 720p screen. The good thing that they will be using DLSS for that now.

If you look at things like Witcher 3 on Switch 1, it is clear that the native rendering is happening at about 360p, or even 240p.
 
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DZero

Senior member
Jun 20, 2024
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Its not that you need "very little" they are upscaling like crazy, and its not so hard to upscale to 6" 720p screen. The good thing that they will be using DLSS for that now.

If you look at things like Witcher 3 on Switch 1, it is clear that the native rendering is happening at about 360p, or even 240p.
It can be 360p, 240p would be too much even by upscaling.

So, maybe the Wii2 will upscale a LOT and that reduces the gains...

Funny story, overclocking the OG Switch, can pull decent numbers...

 

gdansk

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,768
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It should be ≥1.5GHz docked and ≥1.0 GHz mobile. In Orin the cores are in clusters of 4. So cluster B could be lower priority in mobile mode.

But it's Nintendo so who knows. They always know how to disappoint 3rd party developers.
 

Panino Manino

Senior member
Jan 28, 2017
929
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Anyway, I need to remember that these mobile cores are stronger than I give them credit.
My 2xA78 phone scores just the same as my 2xSkylake notebook on Speedometer 2.0, but maybe it feels smoother because of the 120Hz screen.

Again, it's just frustrating that Nintendo is stingier than Motorola.
 

Meteor Late

Senior member
Dec 15, 2023
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Anyway, I need to remember that these mobile cores are stronger than I give them credit.
My 2xA78 phone scores just the same as my 2xSkylake notebook on Speedometer 2.0, but maybe it feels smoother because of the 120Hz screen.

Again, it's just frustrating that Nintendo is stingier than Motorola.

Yes but not at 1.1GHz, that's just ridiculous. I just don't understand how these smartphone cores that are not even true performance cores, but are what we now call efficiency cores, can only clock at 1.1GHz on Samsung 8nm?
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
15,633
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Yes but not at 1.1GHz, that's just ridiculous. I just don't understand how these smartphone cores that are not even true performance cores, but are what we now call efficiency cores, can only clock at 1.1GHz on Samsung 8nm?

When looking at the Exynos that shipped on 8 nm, none of them have the GPU performance the Switch 2 has.
 

gdansk

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,768
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The advertised clock of 2-2.2 on Orin is the boost frequency and not the base. Switch 1 used a static clock so I wouldn't be surprised if that was still the case.
Orin is 1.5GHz fixed clock at 7W. It's not a process problem. Nintendo must want even lower CPU power limit. Or the rumors are simply wrong.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,897
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Cortex A57 is not a small core, the small cores were the x4 A53 ones that got disabled on the Switch 1 probably because A53 is so useless that were a waste of power and just a hassle for the scheduler.
 

LightningZ71

Platinum Member
Mar 10, 2017
2,018
2,455
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The A57 was a bigish core back in 2011. Now even the 510/520 "little" cores are bigger. The A78 is a substantial upgrade.

But, yes, it was once upon a time "big"
 

insertcarehere

Senior member
Jan 17, 2013
703
694
136
The advertised clock of 2-2.2 on Orin is the boost frequency and not the base. Switch 1 used a static clock so I wouldn't be surprised if that was still the case.
The Switch 1 having static clocks is at least partially a function of using an off-the-shelf (and not exactly new at the time) Tegra X1 though. Orin (which T239 is based off) should have far more sophisticated clock domains and controls just from being far newer, and I don't see Nintendo being that dumb to commission something custom from Nvidia just to leave that function by the wayside..
 
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