So Pre-emptive pardons are a real thing?

pmv · Jan 20, 2025

I thought I read here repeatedly people saying that to accept a pardon you had to acknowledge guilt? As neither Fauci nor Milley have been charged with, or even accused of. anything, yet alone convicted, how does that work in these cases?

Biden pardons family members and Trump foes in effort to guard against potential ‘revenge’

Decision by Biden comes after Trump warned of enemies list, including people who investigated Capitol attack

www.theguardian.com

brycejones · Jan 20, 2025

pmv said:
I thought I read here repeatedly people saying that to accept a pardon you had to acknowledge guilt? As neither Fauci nor Milley have been charged with, or even accused of. anything, yet alone convicted, how does that work in these cases?

Biden pardons family members and Trump foes in effort to guard against potential ‘revenge’

Decision by Biden comes after Trump warned of enemies list, including people who investigated Capitol attack

www.theguardian.com

See:

Nixon

Fenixgoon · Jan 20, 2025

Yeah this also confuses me. I get the pardon of Nixon setting precedent, but Nixon actually did shit.

Pens1566 · Jan 20, 2025

I think this is a bad idea. I get the reasoning, but still.

Greenman · Jan 20, 2025

pmv said:
I thought I read here repeatedly people saying that to accept a pardon you had to acknowledge guilt? As neither Fauci nor Milley have been charged with, or even accused of. anything, yet alone convicted, how does that work in these cases?

Biden pardons family members and Trump foes in effort to guard against potential ‘revenge’

Decision by Biden comes after Trump warned of enemies list, including people who investigated Capitol attack

www.theguardian.com

Joe is handing out pardons like Halloween candy. It's a hardy "Fuck You" to America. Thank God the voters were smart enough to pitch the old fool to the curb.

Greenman · Jan 20, 2025

Pens1566 said:
I think this is a bad idea. I get the reasoning, but still.

It's bad idea because it stinks of coverup and corruption.

[DHT]Osiris · Jan 20, 2025

I think the notion is 'I'm pardoning them for any crimes the trump presidency invents' moreso than anything they could legally be responsible for today.

KMFJD · Jan 20, 2025

Has he pardoned Leonard Peltier yet?

Fenixgoon · Jan 20, 2025

Greenman said:
It's bad idea because it stinks of coverup and corruption.

You wouldn't know corruption if you bought a trump branded Bible, watch, and crypto coin.

brycejones · Jan 20, 2025

Greenman said:
It's bad idea because it stinks of coverup and corruption.

Let's be clear you don't really care about either of those things. You voted for Trump 3 times.

Pens1566 · Jan 20, 2025

Greenman said:
It's bad idea because it stinks of coverup and corruption.

Well, your party sure would know a thing or two about that.

Back to the real topic ... please tell us what exactly was corrupt w/Fauci and the house committee. We'll wait to be astounded by whatever talking points you can regurgitate.

K1052 · Jan 20, 2025

There is a real chance they would have been investigated and prosecuted for made up crimes that basically amount to "You were mean to Mr. Trump". Even if they were not found guilty the process would likely be ruinous.

Pens1566 · Jan 20, 2025

K1052 said:
There is a real chance they would have been investigated and prosecuted for made up crimes that basically amount to "You were mean to Mr. Trump". Even if they were not found guilty the process would likely be ruinous.

They can still be investigated. It's not like there will be anything from this to preemptively stop Patel. And they can still be brought in for some made up hearings. Probably even more so now that they're "immune". Fauci with 2 weeks of trying to explain GoF to Sen. Kennedy would be funny to watch though.

Brainonska511 · Jan 20, 2025

I like the people screaming about precedent, as if one party hasn't taken a big steaming dump all over precedent for the past 15 years.

(Also, precedent, as useful as it can be, is still only a guide. Decision makers also need to live in the present with the current situation of Mr Bull-in-a-China-Shop about to run the show).

IronWing · Jan 20, 2025

The pardons prevent Trump's Nazi DOJ appointees from attacking these folks. The congressional Nazis can still make their lives hell a la HUAC. Of course, Greenman love him some Nazis so he doesn't like this move.

K1052 · Jan 20, 2025

Pens1566 said:
They can still be investigated. It's not like there will be anything from this to preemptively stop Patel. And they can still be brought in for some made up hearings. Probably even more so now that they're "immune". Fauci with 2 weeks of trying to explain GoF to Sen. Kennedy would be funny to watch though.

Can one get an injunction against the FBI investigating you for "crimes" that the pardon would cover. Novel legal territory but I'd suspect that is possible.

Pens1566 · Jan 20, 2025

K1052 said:
Can one get an injunction against the FBI investigating you for "crimes" that the pardon would cover. Novel legal territory but I'd suspect that is possible.

From what court???

K1052 · Jan 20, 2025

Pens1566 said:
From what court???

There are many Fed judges who would likely issue one. It might end up at SCOTUS but eroding the executive pardon power is probably not on the menu given *motions broadly at Trump*.

K1052 · Jan 20, 2025

Brainonska511 said:
I like the people screaming about precedent, as if one party hasn't taken a big steaming dump all over precedent for the past 15 years.

(Also, precedent, as useful as it can be, is still only a guide. Decision makers also need to live in the present with the current situation of Mr Bull-in-a-China-Shop about to run the show).

Norms and precedents are worth exactly zero in this environment and the right has broken them with impunity for a long time in the pursuit of power. I am not interested in anything but the explicit outer limits of what the law actually permits. Tradition, norms, and precedents be dammed.

Pens1566 · Jan 20, 2025

K1052 said:
There are many Fed judges who would likely issue one. It might end up at SCOTUS but eroding the executive pardon power is probably not on the menu given *motions broadly at Trump*.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. Eventually, it'll go up to some judge that would happily sign an execution order for Fauci no matter what the pardon actually says.

K1052 · Jan 20, 2025

Pens1566 said:
Yeah, that's what I was getting at. Eventually, it'll go up to some judge that would happily sign an execution order for Fauci no matter what the pardon actually says.

I think show congressional hearings are way more likely at this point.

brycejones · Jan 20, 2025

K1052 said:
I think show congressional hearings are way more likely at this point.

They should respond to questions with shit like recipes.

Pens1566 · Jan 20, 2025

K1052 said:
I think show congressional hearings are way more likely at this point.

I think they're all but guaranteed. WTF else is James Comer gonna do all session???

ivwshane · Jan 20, 2025

Greenman said:
Joe is handing out pardons like Halloween candy. It's a hardy "Fuck You" to America. Thank God the voters were smart enough to pitch the old fool to the curb.

No it’s fuck you to people like you and the people you vote for, the party before country type.

I’m sure you’ll tell us why you think both of those people are guilty of something before any actual charges are levied and why their guilt isn’t dependent upon a trial like you require for any Republican, all before you run off and never return to this thread./s

pmv · Jan 20, 2025

Greenman said:
It's bad idea because it stinks of coverup and corruption.

Really? Honestly, what cover-up or corruption are you implying Fauci was involved in? To me it reeks of anxiety and fear of what the country has let itself in for.

The pardon power does seem open to abuse, though. I mean, if Trump pardons the Jan 6th lot, what's to say he won't get a taste for it and start pardoning violent right-wing terrorists willy-nilly? A president who did that would be more-or-less sending a message that it's OK to murder their opponents. It would be a great way for any wanna-be-despot to spread terror and cow opposition. And perfectly Constitutional, apparently. I guess the one recourse would be state laws that the Presidential pardon wouldn't apply to? But then if you had a friendly governor as well...

So Pre-emptive pardons are a real thing?

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