Question Get an arctic III 360mm or just replace fans to cool 9800X3D?

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,800
4,661
136
I upgraded to a 9800X3D and while my Hi150 elite Corsair 360mm AIO is technically up to the task of cooling it, its fans have to ramp up way too high now to do it under full load, to the point of it bothering my ears. Repasting did nothing to help either. I kinda regret getting this thing now, because while it was perfect for cooling my 9600k quietly under load, the fans Corsair put on it don't have enough static pressure to compete with the arctic 3 when it comes to the significantly hotter 9800X. But I wonder if it's worth it to buy a whole other AIO or if I should just get different fans with better pressure to put on my Corsair radiator. What would you do?
 

In2Photos

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2007
2,303
2,385
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What temps are you getting? Is this during gaming or some other task?
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,800
4,661
136
My 360mm corsair could cool my 9600k at 36c at idle and 600rpm. Even at full load, at a modest 800rpm it could keep the cpu below 80c. it was really quiet. I loved it. The 9800x3d in contrast is at 50c at idle. When the cpu is at 100% in cinemark it's all the aio can do to keep it at 88c at 100% fan speed, something like 2400rpm and it's deafening. That would be one thing. But even in gaming it tends to hover between 70-85c at only 20% utilization and the fans while not deafening are still way louder than I would like. Sometimes I load a game and or move zones and it shoots up from 60c to 95c for a few seconds and the fans go into leaf blower mode before calming down. Very irritating. I was never hardcore enough to get into undervolting but am now looking into it if only to get lower fan noise. Though I sincerely doubt it'll be enough.
 
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In2Photos

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2007
2,303
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I don't think a different cooler is going to help you here. The 9800X3D and the 9600K are very different chips. The X3D temps you mention seem quite normal. The temps are not related to how much air is going through your radiator in this case. That's just how the chip behaves. If you want to reduce noise change your fan curve. Also, have you tried undervolting yet?

For comparison my 7700 runs around mid 70s with about 25% utilization during folding at home. And that's also with a 360 AIO and Lian Li unifans.
 
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Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
2,410
322
126
Just a reminder you may already know. The Corsair iCUE software configuration tool for that system includes an option for YOU to set the speed of the PUMP, which normally is fixed at one speed. While other makers use only full speed, iCUE allows you to set it lower. Apparently with your older CPU chip whatever that speed setting was, it was good. Just check now whether you can set the PUMP speed higher to move heat from CPU to rad faster.
 

StefanR5R

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2016
6,274
9,588
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These are evidently hotspot temperatures. Larger radiators won't make a difference, as your heat output (in Watts) isn't very large. Your problem¹ is not how to get the heat out of the cooler's radiator, but how to get the heat into the cooler's coldplate. As @Paperdoc said, *maybe* faster waterflow would help somewhat (at the cost of pump noise) although this is again happening one or two steps after where your actual problem¹ is. An actual difference with hotspot temperatures would make:
– sub ambient cooling,
– direct die cooling,
– capping the maximum CPU clock speed.

Core i5-9600K: 14 nm manufacturing process, max. 4.6 GHz core clock
Ryzen 7 9800X3D: 4 nm manufacturing process, max. 5.2 GHz core clock

BTW, all of my own computers happen to run with core clocks of 3.7 GHz or less, and they are all cool and quiet. (Except when they are all on, then it's not so quiet at home anymore...) :-)

At work, I was given a Dell minitower with Core i7-8700K. I disabled turbo boost in the BIOS for the purpose of keeping the CPU cooler fan inaudible all time. Coincidentally, this too limits the core speed to less than 3.7 GHz.

________
¹) It is not really a problem, because <a> you still are well below the thermal throttling temperature of 95 °C and <b> it is not a mobile computer in which a lower power consumption due to lower CPU temperatures makes a difference to how long the battery lasts.
 
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Hail The Brain Slug

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2005
3,605
2,695
136
I have this issue with my Liquid Freezer III, as well. Pump ramps to max at 70C, but the fans still have to ramp audibly as soon as any meaningful load hits it. I'm just used to it, sacrifices must be made since this isnt a custom loop like my other machine.

Problem with most AIOs is you have to ramp the fans based on CPU temp, which is not useful when you have water buffering the CPU to radiator transfer. Basing fan speeds on water temperature allows the slower ramp but still responding to a full load that begins to raise the water temperature a meaningful amount.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,665
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I have this issue with my Liquid Freezer III, as well. Pump ramps to max at 70C, but the fans still have to ramp audibly as soon as any meaningful load hits it. I'm just used to it, sacrifices must be made since this isnt a custom loop like my other machine.

Problem with most AIOs is you have to ramp the fans based on CPU temp, which is not useful when you have water buffering the CPU to radiator transfer. Basing fan speeds on water temperature allows the slower ramp but still responding to a full load that begins to raise the water temperature a meaningful amount.
Smart
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,800
4,661
136
Thanks for the input guys. I fiddled with the curve and pump settings while running cinebench and I found by changing to pump speed from quiet to extreme it can keep the cpu at the same 88-91c as before but at 1200rpm fan speed instead of the full blast 2500rpm they defaulted to. I have switched the pump speed to variable now though so it stays at quiet 2200rpm at idle and ramps up to the 2700rpm extreme when the cpu is under load. It really is a shame that the pump on this thing is so loud. At quiet 2200rpm it's practically silent, but just going up 300 more rpm to "balanced" is a huge difference in noise and at 2700 "extreme" it's just obnoxious.

But not nearly as obnoxious as running the fans at 100% speed were, so it's a net gain I suppose. I suppose the biggest upgrade going with an arctic 3 at this point would be only being able to run the pump at a faster speed and lower noise level than the older and obnoxious corsair pump can do, which may not be worth it even with the aio not being too expensive at only like a hundred bucks for the 360mm. (I paid twice as much for this stupid corsair h150i elite, ugh) I'll definitely have to look into undervolting though and hope I got a chip that can do -30 though I doubt it. Would upgrading the paste from arctic m4 to something like kingpin make any tangible difference?
 
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In2Photos

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2007
2,303
2,385
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Thanks for the input guys. I fiddled with the curve and pump settings while running cinebench and I found by changing to pump speed from quiet to extreme it can keep the cpu at the same 88-91c as before but at 1200rpm fan speed instead of the full blast 2500rpm they defaulted to. I have switched the pump speed to variable now though so it stays at quiet 2200rpm at idle and ramps up to the 2700rpm extreme when the cpu is under load. It really is a shame that the pump on this thing is so loud. At quiet 2200rpm it's practically silent, but just going up 300 more rpm to "balanced" is a huge difference in noise and at 2700 "extreme" it's just obnoxious.

But not nearly as obnoxious as running the fans at 100% speed were, so it's a net gain I suppose. I suppose the biggest upgrade going with an arctic 3 at this point would be only being able to run the pump at a faster speed and lower noise level than the older and obnoxious corsair pump can do, which may not be worth it even with the aio not being too expensive at only like a hundred bucks for the 360mm. (I paid twice as much for this stupid corsair h150i elite, ugh) I'll definitely have to look into undervolting though and hope I got a chip that can do -30 though I doubt it. Would upgrading the paste from arctic m4 to something like kingpin make any tangible difference?
My DeepCool pump runs at ~3100 all the time and I can't hear it at all. I can hear my fans slightly during normal use. If I crank up Cinebench the fans get pretty loud. But if you can find settings that you can live with I say keep using the Corsair. If not, then maybe an upgrade is worth it. I've seen some reports of 9800X3D users being able to do -40 so hopefully you can get good results. I don't think changing the paste will help much unless you just didn't get good coverage to start with. But again I think your temps are in line. Some pastes might get you a couple of degrees.
 
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StefanR5R

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2016
6,274
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It is not really a problem, because <a> you still are well below the thermal throttling temperature of 95 °C and <b> it is not a mobile computer in which a lower power consumption due to lower CPU temperatures makes a difference to how long the battery lasts.
PS: Lower core temperatures under load would allow for better clock frequencies. But from what I understand, this only applies if the CPU reached a power limit. 9800X3D's default setting to 120 W TDP and 162 W PPT limit is high enough that it *should* always automatically go to top core clock speed regardless of temperature, as long as it is less than 95 °C. Somebody correct me if I got that wrong. (The finer details of boost clocks changed a bit over the various Zen generations, and I may have missed the latest memo...)
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
32,128
10,148
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I'm not sure how much of this will carry over to your experience but...

I'm at the point that I want to upgrade stuff (mainly because I've run out of PCIe lanes and USB sockets), I'm running a 5800x3d on an x470 mb so the 5800X3D likes to run as hot as it can before throttling.

So 9800X3Ds are out of stock everywhere and I'm just thinking about waiting for the 9950X3D and seeing how that is.

So as I had the upgrade itch and was planning for the future I swapped my Bequiet 240 AIO for a Arctic freezer 420. Well pretty much had a 20c drop across idle and loaded temps!

Main plus point is that it can do that with the fans idling! I'm running an OCCT load thats generating as much CPU heat as possible and my CPU temp is 70c and the fans are spinning at about 500rpm, its totally inaudible.
 
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StefanR5R

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2016
6,274
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I swapped my Bequiet 240 AIO for a Arctic freezer 420
Outer dimensions of these radiators:
277 mm × 120 mm × 27 mm ---- vs. ---- 457.5 mm × 138 mm × 38 mm
My estimation of the volume filled with fins:
≈ 238 mm × 119 mm × 20 mm ≈ 0.57 litres ---- vs. ---- ≈ 418 mm × 137 mm × 30 mm ≈ 1.72 litres
I haven't tried to determine the fin spacing of either radiator. They look similarly dense.

Now, if the radiator with its fans also acts as the main exhaust of the entire case, it figures how warm one gets versus the other.
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
32,128
10,148
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Outer dimensions of these radiators:
277 mm × 120 mm × 27 mm ---- vs. ---- 457.5 mm × 138 mm × 38 mm
My estimation of the volume filled with fins:
≈ 238 mm × 119 mm × 20 mm ≈ 0.57 litres ---- vs. ---- ≈ 418 mm × 137 mm × 30 mm ≈ 1.72 litres
I haven't tried to determine the fin spacing of either radiator. They look similarly dense.

Now, if the radiator with its fans also acts as the main exhaust of the entire case, it figures how warm one gets versus the other.
Yeah the arctic freezer has a lot more "thermal mass" than the bequiet one.

AIOs are fairly cheap at the moment (certainly compared to all the other components), my advice is to get the biggest one you can make fit in your case. Don't worry about "overkill", you can't have too much cooling.
In fact I'd advise people to plan a build all around cooling. Big case, big AIO, big fans.
All your components will be happier and you can get really good cooling at very low sound levels.
 

DaaQ

Golden Member
Dec 8, 2018
1,725
1,213
136
I upgraded to a 9800X3D and while my Hi150 elite Corsair 360mm AIO is technically up to the task of cooling it, its fans have to ramp up way too high now to do it under full load, to the point of it bothering my ears. Repasting did nothing to help either. I kinda regret getting this thing now, because while it was perfect for cooling my 9600k quietly under load, the fans Corsair put on it don't have enough static pressure to compete with the arctic 3 when it comes to the significantly hotter 9800X. But I wonder if it's worth it to buy a whole other AIO or if I should just get different fans with better pressure to put on my Corsair radiator. What would you do?
I am a fan of the gentle typhoon fans. The tone doesn't bother me. I have read other that it has. But I did try the Corsair sp120s and they were bad to me. To the point I gave them away as people asked me for parts. I think I had 6 or 8 of them. No idea what kind of fans are on your current aio.

I will also add that aio setup, was aluded to above, fan setup should be intake cooler air from outside the case and through the radiator. Use rear for exhaust. Exhausting case air though a radiator lessens the cooling efficiency of the radiator whether it's AIO or custom.

I'm bleeding a custom loop right now and plan on trying to get my 9800x3d electrically connected and running by tonight. I can give better temp comparisons then.

Hope any of that was helpful.
 
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Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,800
4,661
136
I am a fan of the gentle typhoon fans. The tone doesn't bother me. I have read other that it has. But I did try the Corsair sp120s and they were bad to me. To the point I gave them away as people asked me for parts. I think I had 6 or 8 of them. No idea what kind of fans are on your current aio.

I will also add that aio setup, was aluded to above, fan setup should be intake cooler air from outside the case and through the radiator. Use rear for exhaust. Exhausting case air though a radiator lessens the cooling efficiency of the radiator whether it's AIO or custom.

I'm bleeding a custom loop right now and plan on trying to get my 9800x3d electrically connected and running by tonight. I can give better temp comparisons then.

Hope any of that was helpful.
I figured as much. I have fans on the bottom of my radiator exhausting through it out the top of the case because their lighting would be obscured if mounted behind the radiator. (RGB is dumb , I know... But I love it)

But dumb question. I'm still considering getting the arctic III for it's much quieter fan pump and better fans. Maybe for it's thicker radiator as well if that helps with cooling. If for arguments sake I did get the arctic III, used the arctic 3 fans on one side of the radiator and just put my corsair fans on the other side of the radiator that would not obscure their rgb, (basically making it a push and pull setup between the three arctic 3 fans on one side and my 3 corsair fans) would that cause an issue with turbulence or something?

I'm guessing there's some issue with pairing one brand of fans on one side of a radiator with a different brand of fans on the opposite side that don't have identical rpm/static pressure etc. but I'm curious. Because even if adding the corsair fans weren't doing much to improve upon the cooling of an arctic III with its three built in arctic fans, so long as they wouldn't be undermining the cooling done by the arctic AIO it might be worth it to me as a way of preserving my coordinated all corsair rgb setup while also improving the cooling.
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
32,128
10,148
136
I don't see why you can't swap out the fans on the AF3. I had to take them off because of the way radiators mount in my case.
Although if you re going to do a push/pull on the AF3 it might just be worth adding some fans to your existing AIO and trying that. Particularly if you have some old fans lying around!
 

DaaQ

Golden Member
Dec 8, 2018
1,725
1,213
136
I figured as much. I have fans on the bottom of my radiator exhausting through it out the top of the case because their lighting would be obscured if mounted behind the radiator. (RGB is dumb , I know... But I love it)

But dumb question. I'm still considering getting the arctic III for it's much quieter fan pump and better fans. Maybe for it's thicker radiator as well if that helps with cooling. If for arguments sake I did get the arctic III, used the arctic 3 fans on one side of the radiator and just put my corsair fans on the other side of the radiator that would not obscure their rgb, (basically making it a push and pull setup between the three arctic 3 fans on one side and my 3 corsair fans) would that cause an issue with turbulence or something?

I'm guessing there's some issue with pairing one brand of fans on one side of a radiator with a different brand of fans on the opposite side that don't have identical rpm/static pressure etc. but I'm curious. Because even if adding the corsair fans weren't doing much to improve upon the cooling of an arctic III with its three built in arctic fans, so long as they wouldn't be undermining the cooling done by the arctic AIO it might be worth it to me as a way of preserving my coordinated all corsair rgb setup while also improving the cooling.
I believe way way back Martin did testing on this. And it was not negative. Depending of course if the other set of fans were not pulling less air than the other pushed through. I am not sure of the thickness of the artic 3 or the fin density. But look at it this way. High density fins of a radiator need high rpm high static pressure fans, why they perform better.

I use AMS modularity radiators which everyone harped on because they were high restriction water flow wise but we're good for low rpm fans. They are thick and kinda odd fan spacing is possible with them as well. Anyway. I have Alphacool 60mm rads denser fins but are dirty as all get out where they made the radiator cleaning kits for them. There was another brand with a high amount of flux inside started with a P but I can't remember the brand name they are gone now.

But yes if you have the room to do the push pull. I would do it and set the Corsair fans up for water temp. Maybe set the others as a constant.
 
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