Discussion Future ARM Cortex + Neoverse µArchs Discussion

Page 46 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

soresu

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2014
3,624
2,942
136
Arguably ARM Ltd's new focus started years prior to the Nuvia announcement when thye were acquired by SoftBank.
 

soresu

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2014
3,624
2,942
136
Also, is time to see hoy A530 is. Now I am thinking that is about to ditch the In Order Core unless they release an A630 variant being Out of Order, but based on the A530.
Definitely curious to see what Nevis/A530 is like.

A5xx has so far been underwhelming to say the least in perf/watt over A55, and it's not like streamer sticks are going to just start jumping to A7xx simply because ARM now label it as the efficiency core.
 

DZero

Senior member
Jun 20, 2024
693
260
96
purple line (8 core) shows its more efficient at any power level?
Let's make an analogy between that and the Mediatek 8400.
CPU wise the 8400 is very efficient, so expect less eficiency but the same curve on the 8 core of Nintendo Switch.

heck even Mediatek 8400 would emulate the basic Switch 2 games.
 

DZero

Senior member
Jun 20, 2024
693
260
96
Definitely curious to see what Nevis/A530 is like.

A5xx has so far been underwhelming to say the least in perf/watt over A55, and it's not like streamer sticks are going to just start jumping to A7xx simply because ARM now label it as the efficiency core.
How ARM can fix the current situation?
2 options:
- If they need to ditch the in order core, they can move the A530 as an out of order core without making it modular anymore. That would be the step made by Huawei and sell it as normally is.

- If they want to keep the In Order Core, but needs an Out of Order one with better efficiency, they should make the variant of the A530 but with the Out of Order cache that allows that. With that in mind they can resurrect the A6XX series and sell it as the A630. It will be modular.

Of course Mediatek and Qualcomm will start to see it for the middle tier (Snapdragon 6 Gen X or Dimensity 7X00). Similar to Exynos (Exynos 1X80), leaving the A5XX for the low tier processors and for IoT stuff.
 

soresu

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2014
3,624
2,942
136
Of course Mediatek and Qualcomm will start to see it for the middle tier (Snapdragon 6 Gen X or Dimensity 7X00). Similar to Exynos (Exynos 1X80), leaving the A5XX for the low tier processors and for IoT stuff.
That's just the smartphone/tablet market.

There's a whole huge ecosystem of consumer electronics that has typically used the lesser A5x cores up until now, including TVs.

Plenty of other SoC ODMs out there like Amlogic, Rockchip, Allwinner and others.
 

DZero

Senior member
Jun 20, 2024
693
260
96
That's just the smartphone/tablet market.

There's a whole huge ecosystem of consumer electronics that has typically used the lesser A5x cores up until now, including TVs.

Plenty of other SoC ODMs out there like Amlogic, Rockchip, Allwinner and others.
Well... there is the Mediatek Pentonic series which uses only Big Cores too.

Even the low tier Pentonic 700 uses the ARM Core A73

Also there is the Exynos chip and wearables starting to go with the A7XX series and an A6XX series being out of order but small enough to be efficient too would make the trick and move on.

In order cores are starting to be totally obsolete and is time to move on.

EDIT: Another big example is Huawei, they released an in house Out of Order Small Core and will be used for EVERY small device like TVs, wearables and even headphones. ARM should make it too.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: Tlh97 and NTMBK

soresu

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2014
3,624
2,942
136
Funny story in most devices like Watches or smart bands will get their time too.
Depends on the type.

My Galaxy Fit 3 uses a Bestechnic BES2700iBP, which apparently uses a CPU core designed by ARM China called STAR-MC1, which sounds suspiciously like a microcontroller to me.

As for the larger true smart watches they already started using big A7x as of last year, with the Exynos W1000 in the Galaxy Watch 7/7Ultra using a single A78 and 4 smaller cores.
 
Reactions: Tlh97 and DZero

LightningDust

Member
Sep 3, 2024
26
41
51
Expected since In Order are really old. However eventually it should change since out of order is shown to be superior.

Except in all the ways it's not. You're re-fighting 2005's battles and it's really weird.

There is no purpose in adding OoO to 99.99% of in-order cores, even most superscalar in-order cores.
 

DZero

Senior member
Jun 20, 2024
693
260
96
There are many places where the simplicity of in-order is an advantage. Especially when it allows for less errata.

But in phones as part of the user-visible CPU clusters? It seems they may be on the way out.
Not only phones, also devices which the user has to interact with. And of course In order will be dominant, but it already reached the limit and out of order won't dissapear since is for more complex operations, also has more potential in the long term.
 

DZero

Senior member
Jun 20, 2024
693
260
96

soresu

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2014
3,624
2,942
136
There is LSC/FC with Restricted Out-of-Order capability...
View attachment 115540
+ FSC: https://dl.acm.org/doi/fullHtml/10.1145/3499424
So, there are alternatives to pure Out-of-Order and pure In-Order. I see rOoO/sOoO taking over in-place of InO/OoO.

Cortex-A600 can't come out sooner.
A quick look over those alternatives show them to be pretty recent academic work, and thus unlikely to be in any commercialised product earlier than 2030.

As to A6xx, I did see something in this Asian rumour website months ago.

The same one that got the 'Logan' name wrong for X5/X925, which referenced a name alongside Travis/X930, claiming it was between A5xx and A7xx in perf.

I'll have to hunt it down again and see if I can find it.
 

DZero

Senior member
Jun 20, 2024
693
260
96
A quick look over those alternatives show them to be pretty recent academic work, and thus unlikely to be in any commercialised product earlier than 2030.

As to A6xx, I did see something in this Asian rumour website months ago.

The same one that got the 'Logan' name wrong for X5/X925, which referenced a name alongside Travis/X930, claiming it was between A5xx and A7xx in perf.

I'll have to hunt it down again and see if I can find it.
There was the A68, but I expect a rework in the A6XX line and become an Out of Order alternative of the A5XX.

Also A5XX is going the bulldozer path, decreasing the real performance of the core, so a small version of the A7XX would be ideal now.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |