Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Tigerick · Aug 22, 2022

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	12 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	8P + 16E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	36 MB ?	12 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

511 · 2025-02-04T12:08:12-0500

https://twitter.com/x/status/1886818040056365063

ARL-H Deep Dive

TSMC救不了Intel：酷睿Ultra 7 255H（Arrow Lake H45）测试 | David Huang's Blog

Meteor Late · 2025-02-04T12:31:31-0500

Very bad efficiency in single core, worse than Strix Point with a better node, except at the top of the curve.

igor_kavinski · 2025-02-04T12:44:04-0500

258V looks most impressive there.

After that, HX370 is great but then its curve becomes similar to 255H. Almost like they are copying each other's work.

Meteor Late · 2025-02-04T12:47:39-0500

igor_kavinski said:
258V looks most impressive there.

Not necessarily, we are using a better node and Memory on Package to achieve parity in the vast majority of the curve with the competition.

igor_kavinski · 2025-02-04T12:48:39-0500

Meteor Late said:
we

Current or ex-Intel engineer?

desrever · 2025-02-04T12:59:02-0500

Meteor Late said:
Very bad efficiency in single core, worse than Strix Point with a better node, except at the top of the curve.

I wouldn't call Intel 3 a better node than TSMC N4

Hitman928 · 2025-02-04T13:05:16-0500

desrever said:
I wouldn't call Intel 3 a better node than TSMC N4

ARL-H is using TSMC’s N3(B).

SiliconFly · 2025-02-04T13:12:50-0500

255H beats HX370 at high frequencies! Nice.

igor_kavinski · 2025-02-04T13:17:35-0500

SiliconFly said:
255H beats HX370 at high frequencies! Nice.

Seems like a very bad missed opportunity to me. If that 258V line could've been extended a bit further to 14W without any regression, that would've been awesome. Guess they didn't have the foresight to do something like Strix Halo.

cannedlake240 · 2025-02-04T13:22:25-0500

511 said:
View attachment 116268
DMR Launching Q2/Q3 26?

Idk how impactful DMR will be without smt and probably slightly lower core count... It might narrow the gap vs Epyc in some scenarios but lose ground in others, as opposed to Granite which was a clear improvement over prior gens in all aspects. Xeon L3 has the same latency issues seen on client too. Guess 2028 is the new 2025, Jaguar, Coral etc is their next chance at catching up.

dttprofessor · 2025-02-04T13:35:33-0500

AMD's good days in mid-to-high-end notebooks are over, even with an 8-10% IPC limitation on Pcore@285H (compared to 258V), ULTRA2 still has considerable competitiveness. The only competitive products AMD currently has in the laptop market are the low-end 7845H and 8845H.

desrever · 2025-02-04T14:17:46-0500

Hitman928 said:
ARL-H is using TSMC’s N3(B).

Oh I see, I totally missed this, thought they were the same as the Ultra U series.

adroc_thurston · 2025-02-04T14:27:43-0500

dttprofessor said:
AMD's good days in mid-to-high-end notebooks are over, even with an 8-10% IPC limitation on Pcore@285H (compared to 258V), ULTRA2 still has considerable competitiveness.

Meds.

igor_kavinski said:
Guess they didn't have the foresight to do something like Strix Halo.

THEY DID. ARL-H 683 was canned.

poke01 · 2025-02-04T15:10:30-0500

ARL-H/HX is meh. PTL-H is where the fun begins

adroc_thurston · 2025-02-04T15:20:45-0500

poke01 said:
PTL-H is where the fun begins

Oh lmao no, the CPU part there is completely unremarkable.
Now, GPU? yea.

poke01 · 2025-02-04T15:31:01-0500

adroc_thurston said:
Oh lmao no, the CPU part there is completely unremarkable.
Now, GPU? yea.

Doesn’t PTL also get rid of MTL design junk

adroc_thurston · 2025-02-04T15:38:03-0500

poke01 said:
Doesn’t PTL also get rid of MTL design junk

How does that stop the cores (and the L3) from Not Sucking?

SiliconFly · 2025-02-04T15:39:32-0500

poke01 said:
Doesn’t PTL also get rid of MTL design junk

PTL uses a different tile design compared to MTL/ARL. Intel keeps saying PTL layout is more closer to LNL than ARL. Should be exciting. But for some reason, NVL is again switching back to MTL/ARL tile layout (mostly) with some modifications/improvements. Maybe they found a way to fix MTL/ARL tile issues. Funny thing is, Zen 6 is also expected to follow similar Intel tile designs.

adroc_thurston said:
Oh lmao no, the CPU part there is completely unremarkable.
Now, GPU? yea.

PTL is expected to bring in better performance due to the new design compared to ARL-H.

adroc_thurston said:
How does that stop the cores (and the L3) from Not Sucking?

Improvements in design. Like how AMD went from Bulldozer to Zen.

gdansk · 2025-02-04T15:44:19-0500

SiliconFly said:
Improvements in design. Like how AMD went from Bulldozer to Zen.

PTL has a totally different uarch?

adroc_thurston · 2025-02-04T15:53:42-0500

SiliconFly said:
But for some reason, NVL is again switching back to MTL/ARL tile layout (mostly) with some modifications/improvements

Cost.

SiliconFly said:
Funny thing is, Zen 6 is also expected to follow similar Intel tile designs.

It follows Strix-halo.

SiliconFly said:
PTL is expected to bring in better performance due to the new design compared to ARL-H.

w r o n g.

SiliconFly said:
Improvements in design. Like how AMD went from Bulldozer to Zen.

what the-

SiliconFly · 2025-02-04T15:55:28-0500

adroc_thurston said:
It follows Strix-halo.

Nope.

adroc_thurston said:
w r o n g.

Nope.

adroc_thurston said:
what the-

Thats the-

adroc_thurston · 2025-02-04T15:56:12-0500

SiliconFly said:
Nope.

Yeah.

SiliconFly said:
Nope.

Yeah. The selling point of PTL-H is the iGFX.

SiliconFly said:
Thats the-

PTL does not introduce any new cores.

SiliconFly · 2025-02-04T16:03:30-0500

adroc_thurston said:
Yeah.

Nope.

adroc_thurston said:
Yeah. The selling point of PTL-H is the iGFX.

Keep on dreaming.

adroc_thurston said:
PTL does not introduce any new cores.

Both the cores are getting updates. And the tiles are getting some interesting updates too.

poke01 · 2025-02-04T16:06:17-0500

So apart from iGPU, PTL is not exciting?
Hopefully NVL-H is better otherwise AMD gonna eat Intel for lunch with their mobile designs.

dullard · 2025-02-04T16:08:50-0500

adroc_thurston said:
PTL does not introduce any new cores.

Last rumor that I saw was more LP-E cores (4 instead of 2). And all cores get upgrades. Cougar Cove P cores instead of Lion Cove. E cores get a few optimizations, but aren't much different. LP-E cores should be able to be ran much faster (and hopefully will then be functionally usable) when not on TSMC 6. And that isn't even counting if there are power efficiency gains from 18A.

What evidence do you have that this is no CPU improvement over ARL-H?

Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

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