NV 12VHPWR issues revisited

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MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,871
2,535
136
"Jensen, people aren't upgrading because we're only adding 10% performance after 2 years and they've gotten wise to our VRAM tricks. What can we do?"

"They can't keep their old GPU if they no longer have an old GPU. Mwahaha."
 

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,861
8,941
136
"Jensen, people aren't upgrading because we're only adding 10% performance after 2 years and they've gotten wise to our VRAM tricks. What can we do?"

"They can't keep their old GPU if they no longer have an old GPU. Mwahaha."
Gotta love that RTX Planned Obsolescence.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,649
3,511
136
Took the cable off my Waterforce 4090. Put the cable on it nearly two years ago. Had to wrestle it off since it was on there so tight. Ended up breaking the clip. As much as the doomsayers wish it... no melty melty. 4090 also fine.

Now to sell the 4090.

 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,742
6,248
136
So remind me again of why it's a good idea to have only one 12VHPWR connector on an AIB card with 600W+ BIOS options?

Generally OC these cards makes little sense, you are are producing massively more heat with a bigger power draw for marginal performance increases.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,479
12,335
136
Generally OC these cards makes little sense, you are are producing massively more heat with a bigger power draw for marginal performance increases.
. . . which is what AIB card owners have been doing for decades. That's no excuse.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,742
6,248
136
. . . which is what AIB card owners have been doing for decades. That's no excuse.

I will agree with you on this one. It makes no sense to offer a bios that exceeds the power connectors limits, if that is actually the case.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,479
12,335
136
And here we go:
That didn't take long. The Buildzoid video linked by @IEC goes into it pretty well, but a tl;dr from the video (and videocardz article):

User had a small ITX build, so he needed a shorter cable, and got one from moddiy (https://www.moddiy.com/products/ATX...-16-Pin-to-16-Pin-PCIE-Gen-5-Power-Cable.html)
the cable from moddiy was supposedly a newer 12v2x6-compliant cable that saw previous use on a 4090
user did not use the supplied adapter from NV, nor did they use the cable that came with their PSU
from the burnout it looks like the sense pins were all connected but one of the power pins may have been stripped out or otherwise worn from use

Just looking at it from a DiY perspective, it's perfectly normal for something as pedestrian as a power cable to be re-used between builds. Especially if you have a non-standard build that requires custom cabling for reasons of space constraints. Also according to Buildzoid the ASUS 4090s (and presumably 5090s) have shunt resistors that can trigger a software warning if they detect abnormal current levels on any of the power pins, so perhaps ASUS cards are the safest ones to use? Though honestly, at that point, if you KNOW there's going to be a problem, why not just use a second connector like they did on the 4090Ti????
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,479
12,335
136
Also as a side note, here's a great comment from one of users on videocardz, Kamen Rider Blade:

Basic Safety Factor Requirements:
- 12VHPWR has a Safety Factor of 14% ONLY
- 125% is straight out of the National Electric Code (NEC). The code specs the maximum continuous current should be 80% of rated capacity
- Safety Factors of 2x is normal for Civil Engineering based Electrical Codes

That encapsulates everything wrong with how NV is using 12VHPWR/12v-2x6.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,397
5,624
136
Post is now flagged as misinformation, because same user bragged about running at max OC forever:





Poster has deleted most of his top OC threads, since this was pointed out but you can still see the threads:



One poster even tells him, he's going to blow his 12v power connector and he says it won't. , and also says: "I paid for 100% of the voltage limit, im gonna use 100% of the voltage limit. Haha"

Basically all sliders to max...
4090 overclockers be like

 

ToTTenTranz

Senior member
Feb 4, 2021
381
729
136
Also as a side note, here's a great comment from one of users on videocardz, Kamen Rider Blade:



That encapsulates everything wrong with how NV is using 12VHPWR/12v-2x6.
Safety factor of 14% is crazy. What the hell were they thinking, using this to a >$2000 consumer electronics product?
Even 25% is low, this should be 50% or higher.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,742
6,248
136
Safety factor of 14% is crazy. What the hell were they thinking, using this to a >$2000 consumer electronics product?
Even 25% is low, this should be 50% or higher.

Safety factor is already built into the micro-fit connectors themselves. You don't need to stack another safety factor on top.
 

ToTTenTranz

Senior member
Feb 4, 2021
381
729
136
Safety factor is already built into the micro-fit connectors themselves. You don't need to stack another safety factor on top.
This is not true.
Safety factor in an electrical circuit refers to how much above-spec current can pass through that same circuit. That means the actual safety factor is always the lowest-common denominator within the circuit.

And 15% is absurdly low, considering how much current is going through those pins.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,742
6,248
136
This is not true.
Safety factor in an electrical circuit refers to how much above-spec current can pass through that same circuit. That means the actual safety factor is always the lowest-common denominator within the circuit.

And 15% is absurdly low, considering how much current is going through those pins.

You have 15 amp plugs all over your home, appliances aren't limited to 7.5 AMPs to stack another safety factor on top. That isn't how this works.
 

ToTTenTranz

Senior member
Feb 4, 2021
381
729
136
You have 15 amp plugs all over your home,
Alternate current, RMS means ~10.6 amp and on much bigger connectors.


appliances aren't limited to 7.5 AMPs to stack another safety factor on top.
They don't stack, that's exactly my point.
The safety factor number corresponds to the lowest common denominator.
Doesn't matter if you have a safety factor of 3 in one part of the circuit. If the safety factor in any part of the circuit is 1.15, then that's the safety factor for the entire circuit.


That isn't how this works.
🤦‍♂️
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,742
6,248
136
They don't stack, that's exactly my point.
The safety factor number corresponds to the lowest common denominator.
Doesn't matter if you have a safety factor of 3 in one part of the circuit. If the safety factor in any part of the circuit is 1.15, then that's the safety factor for the entire circuit.

That makes no sense.

If I sell you a power connector, and it's rated for to handle 10 amps, that means I've already done the safety factor analysis, testing etc.

You can use it right up to 10 amps.

There is absolutely ZERO need for you to underrate it, for safety factor. That's already built in.

We have massive industry of connectors and switch, relays etc, that all have power ratings, that you can use 100% of because they already have engineered in safety factors.
 

In2Photos

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2007
2,378
2,558
136
I'm not sure how anyone can keep defending this connector, or the companies involved, for continuing to use it as is. (how is this not similar to the Intel 13/14th Gen problems?) As an engineer we are tasked with not only providing solutions to problems, but we are tasked with keeping the public's safety in mind at all times. This means we have to account for all sorts of scenarios, including user error. While the changes to the connector by shortening the sense pins were a step in the right direction there is still not enough protection to keep people from suffering damage to their equipment. There needs to be some sort of additional protection in either the PSU or GPU to limit current when connections are not solid if this connector is to be used going forward. Some sort of overcurrent protection on EACH of the 12V wires or something along those lines perhaps.

I also wonder if the connector being recessed in the FE leads to higher temps since it is restricted from case air flow.
 
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