Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

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fastandfurious6

Senior member
Jun 1, 2024
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Do you think that 16 core fire range will consume less power under similar conditions?

Yes absolutely




Basically and broadly speaking:

9955HX will need less than half the 'juice' of tiger lake / 11980HK to have the same performance

9955HX has way better/smarter thermal performance than tiger lake

9955HX will have around 90% perf of 9950X despite limited to mostly 55 - 120 watts

9955HX laptops have way better heatsinks/thermal dissipation than some tiger lake dell pavilion

These are just some numbers I can quickly produce from NBC database, we don't have the right curves perf-per-watt and equivalent thermal perf on each generation


tl;dr trust me bro. I'll post a very elaborate review once I have my 9955hx laptop
 

StefanR5R

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2016
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The power consumed (while compiling, on a laptop — context: #23,264, #23,267) is almost solely a function of the power limit configured in the particular laptop's BIOS, not really a function of the CPU built into the laptop. No need to waste so many posts on such a straightforward subject.

(PS: Task energy however would be a different matter. But that wasn't discussed.)
 
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fastandfurious6

Senior member
Jun 1, 2024
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7940HX perf vs power, need only half the power to match a 14900HX, and Zen 5 will be more efficient at same perf.



Exactly that

65w:

amd 7940HX ~ 30000
intel 14900HX ~ 21000
tiger lake is ~10000 at ~65w but same time close to 100 degrees... runs way too hot

my estimate is 9955HX will be ~34000 around 70w

killer performance at very low wattage

and on topic at ~70 watts fans are barely audible on a 2.5kg laptop
 
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MS_AT

Senior member
Jul 15, 2024
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9955HX will need less than half the 'juice' of tiger lake / 11980HK to have the same performance
I never was disputing the fact that 9955HX will be performant CPU, nor I claimed it won't be faster than any member of Tiger Lake family.

At the same time I am not buying this class of CPU to run it at 45W...(this is the sustained power draw in my Dell Laptop). If the compile time will drop from 40 minutes to 20 minutes, it still enough to heat up the CPU that will be running at 120W and to cool that in a chassis that is 3 cm thick requires noticeable fan speed. I mean physics does not bend to AMD nor does it bend to Intel. By all means AMD has a better offer at the moment and as you will see by my comments other thread, I wish I could get such CPU from my employee, as at work I care more about the speed than the noise it will produce, but at the same time I have hard time believing it will be able to reach the same noise levels as a desktop PC with the same CPU. Since I frequently run all core workloads at home, in my free time, I did no not want to give people living with me a bonus hair-dryer experience

If you are not running often into power limits or people you live with find the laptop cooling acceptable, then by all means go for this solution. My only issue was you telling everyone that laptop is fine for everybody

9955HX will have around 90% perf of 9950X despite limited to mostly 55 - 120 watts
In games, perhaps, but we have seen power scaling of 9950X, 9955HX won't be 10% slower at 120W vs stock 9950x. Especially that 9950HX will be more often than not paired with worse memory. Still among laptop CPUs it will top the MT charts most likely. But once again, not at 55W of power draw.
tl;dr trust me bro. I'll post a very elaborate review once I have my 9955hx laptop
Good. I hope you will. I am curious what the numbers will be
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
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At the same time I am not buying this class of CPU to run it at 45W...(this is the sustained power draw in my Dell Laptop). If the compile time will drop from 40 minutes to 20 minutes, it still enough to heat up the CPU that will be running at 120W

Tht s not the point wich is rather than it will drop from 40mn to 10-15mn at the same 45W, you ll see once Strix Halo is released, although it should be at 55W mnimaly.
 
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fastandfurious6

Senior member
Jun 1, 2024
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My only issue was you telling everyone that laptop is fine for everybody

but it is fine for everybody seeking fully portable 9950x!

as long as you're ok with these 2 things

- 2.5kg minimum
- price point around ~1500 ~2000

then yes it's 100% for you. then if you want something lighter/smaller you get that 13'' Halo, similar 9950x cpu perf

I repeat, all the arguments you pose about 'too hot' or 'too noisy' simply do not apply

"too hot+noisy" only applies when the below happens

- 100% load CPU + GPU at same time
- AAA games on High/Ultra

and in those cases there's loud game music or other sfx etc or distance if you have it just plugged at tv away,
which again make it unnoticable

At the same time I am not buying this class of CPU to run it at 45W

you can run it at full power 100-130w and it will still be totally fine temp/noise wise

there are plenty of 7945hx reviews already and this already applies, 9955hx will only make things better on that front... just can't bother searching for the right video where it shows that but the graph above is proof enough
 
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uzzi38

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 2019
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but it is fine for everybody seeking fully portable 9950x!

as long as you're ok with these 2 things

- 2.5kg minimum
- price point around ~1500 ~2000

then yes it's 100% for you. then if you want something lighter/smaller you get that 13'' Halo, similar 9950x cpu perf

I repeat, all the arguments you pose about 'too hot' or 'too noisy' simply do not apply

"too hot+noisy" only applies when the below happens

- 100% load CPU + GPU at same time
- AAA games on High/Ultra

and in those cases there's loud game music or other sfx etc or distance if you have it just plugged at tv away,
which again make it unnoticable



you can run it at full power 100-130w and it will still be totally fine temp/noise wise

there are plenty of 7945hx reviews already and this already applies, 9955hx will only make things better on that front... just can't bother searching for the right video where it shows that but the graph above is proof enough
You know what also fits all of these bills, except does them better?

Strix Halo.

Except it does it at lower power under load, lower power at idle and even can go into a tablet sized chassis. And of course, will do very well even at regular laptop sizes. Most 14" laptops are able to dissipate 28W and above, and that's quite fine for STX-H, even if not ideal.

I can understand why you're very keen on these sorts of devices, but trust me when I say STX-H is just a better product in pretty much every way.
 

fastandfurious6

Senior member
Jun 1, 2024
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Halo R23 power curve on rog flow x13 (~1.3kg) pre-production




That's damn impressive

30w easily runs with 0db passive mode ~70°C and it's a full 200% performance over tiger lake at 100 °C lol




9000 timespy generally means any game over 60fps, 1080p high settings

70w total with silent fan mode will run around 50-60 °C

based on:
7945hx rtx4070 2.5kg laptop, 110w (30w cpu + 80w gpu), silent mode gaming at 75 °C
that's Cyberpunk 1080p Ultra settings at ~75 fps
 
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MS_AT

Senior member
Jul 15, 2024
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30w easily runs with 0db passive mode ~70°C and it's a full 200% performance over tiger lake at 100 °C lol
We have seen this graphs already in this thread The story they don't tell is the sustained performance

Btw why do you compare to Tiger Lake? Originally you were trying to sell me 9955hx as a good replacement for 9950x. But with every post you lower the performance target, first it was:
9955HX will have around 90% perf of 9950X despite limited to mostly 55 - 120 watts
Then we got to:
When you see video of 9955hx laptop with Superior Ergonomics compiling linux silently at ~80% speed/time of 9950x will that convince you?
And now you pivot to Strix Halo, which has optimized interconnect what gives it a TDP headroom compared to 9955hx.

My original claim was that 9955hx in a 2.5kg laptop chassis when doing something as innocent as compiling a non-trivial CPP project would bounce of the power limits what would stress its cooling solution and make it audible and that the sound it will produce will be more bothersome than desktop PC with 9950x in average sized case, while not being able to match it in performance. If we wanted we could throw in a GPU loads to muddle the waters.

The only reason I have mentioned Tiger Lake was that it housed in a Precision model, that is top of the line of what Dell produces. Whatever opinion you might have about quality of Dell laptops will be probably higher than what I think about it, so let's not go into that direction. The point was that 45W sustained power draw in 2,5kg laptop chassis is generating a noticeable noise for me if subjected to loads lasting longer than CB23 run that you use as performance proxy.

Now we could argue, that CB23 is poor proxy for compilation performance but I think this does not belong to this thread.

Anyway I think we are going in circles. I really don't want to convince you you should get a desktop or something. If laptop is what you want then go for it. It's not my business. But I hope you will post your performance numbers when you get one eventually, out of curiosity what a well implemented machine can achieve, as I trust you will pick a well implemented one.
 

fastandfurious6

Senior member
Jun 1, 2024
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The story they don't tell is the sustained performance

😂😂 still more things!

'sustained performance' (i.e. potential thermal throttling) at low W is almost never a problem, only at full loads (200w+++)

so again, nope
But with every post you lower the performance target, first it was 90% then 80%

second post with 80% specifically says silent compile of linux...
silent mode = bit less perf

again nope
And now you pivot to Strix Halo, which has optimized interconnect what gives it a TDP headroom compared to 9955hx.

bit better perf and thermals esp. at low W, but basically the same 16 x zen5

again nope
My original claim was that 9955hx in a 2.5kg laptop chassis when doing something as innocent as compiling a non-trivial CPP project would bounce of the power limits what would stress its cooling solution and make it audible

nope sorry I already covered this

silent mode 9955hx / halo: broadly ~80% compile speed of equivalent desktop 9950x full load

performance mode still very livable dB and temps, speed should be around ~90%
the sound it will produce will be more bothersome than desktop PC with 9950x in average sized case, while not being able to match it in performance.

nope
The point was that 45W sustained power draw in 2,5kg laptop chassis is generating a noticeable noise for me if subjected to loads lasting longer than CB23

nope.

that applies with tiger lake (regardless of OEM/chassis, agree dell is terrible) which has
- piss poor performance
- full load at 65w
- 100 °C at 65w+

not the case at all with 7945hx / 9955hx / halo, the graphs literally prove this,
i.e. 7945hx+4070
- demanding AAA game at 75 fps Ultra
- 110w total
- silent, 75 °C

we're not going on circles, the topic is closed let's move on 😂
 
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Thunder 57

Diamond Member
Aug 19, 2007
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we're not going on circles, the topic is closed let's move on 😂

Generally when one says something like that it means they realized they were wrong and want to get on without admitting so. Also you don't provide any source for your numbers so it is anything but closed. This probably isn't the thread for it though.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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I wish they would do a dual V-cache X3D kickstarter, just to gauge consumer interest. Can they manage to sell out a limited batch of CPUs for $1 million in less than a week, to be delivered in 4 months?
 

Thunder 57

Diamond Member
Aug 19, 2007
3,418
5,655
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I wish they would do a dual V-cache X3D kickstarter, just to gauge consumer interest. Can they manage to sell out a limited batch of CPUs for $1 million in less than a week, to be delivered in 4 months?

It wouldnt perform they way you'd want/expect and it would cost too much and cost AMD valuable 3D cache they would be better spent anywhere else. They can't even produce enough 9800X3D's.
 

Hans Gruber

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 2006
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It wouldnt perform they way you'd want/expect and it would cost too much and cost AMD valuable 3D cache they would be better spent anywhere else. They can't even produce enough 9800X3D's.
AMD should double the v-cache with Zen 6 and make the standard processors with the same amount of v-cache found on the 9800x3d chips. The dual v-cache sounds great but AMD has finally fixed their clock regression on Zen 5 v-cache. It makes sense to make v-cache standard and introduce a new x3D CPU with double the v-cache.
 
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