Discussion Nvidia Blackwell in Q1-2025

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jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
15,755
6,231
136
I think it's obvious why Nvidia stopped production on the 40 series months ago. It wasn't to ramp up production of the 50 series. It was to exhaust the supply of 40 series so that Nvidia wouldn't be competing with itself.

The desktop GDDR6 models were in production until recently I think.
 

Kronos1996

Junior Member
Dec 28, 2022
24
37
61
Not Trust.

What's the source of that nonsense?

It makes ZERO sense that 5070 Ti would be relatively faster in RT, but the 5070 would relatively much worse at RT.
Sure it can. IIRC RT is more memory hungry so it benefits more from larger cache and memory bandwidth vs rasterization. 5070 is a smaller, stripped down die than even the 4070. It’s safe to assume its memory system has been chopped down.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,704
6,175
136
Sure it can. IIRC RT is more memory hungry so it benefits more from larger cache and memory bandwidth vs rasterization. 5070 is a smaller, stripped down die than even the 4070. It’s safe to assume its memory system has been chopped down.

No it isn't. 5070 has more cache, and a LOT more memory bandwidth (672 vs 504) over the 4070. It's RT improvements should be similar to raster improvements, or better.
 

ToTTenTranz

Senior member
Feb 4, 2021
352
664
136
No it isn't. 5070 has more cache, and a LOT more memory bandwidth (672 vs 504) over the 4070. It's RT improvements should be similar to raster improvements, or better.

You're assuming the RTX 4070's RT performance was bandwidth-limited, whereas it's probably memory-limited. And if the 5070 has the same amount of VRAM, that problem isn't going away.
 
Reactions: igor_kavinski

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,704
6,175
136
You're assuming the RTX 4070's RT performance was bandwidth-limited, whereas it's probably memory-limited. And if the 5070 has the same amount of VRAM, that problem isn't going away.

That wasn't my assumption. Read the post I was responding to: "RT is more memory hungry so it benefits more from larger cache and memory bandwidth vs rasterization"

Also you seem to just be touting another potentially faulty assumption to prop up MLID nonsense. Why do that? It's much more likely that this is just more nonsense that MLID blathers for views.

If you are still keen on your assumption, go test it by checking out RT performance of the original 4070 vs 4070 Ti and your assumed collapse should be easy to find. I don't believe this exists or it would have been noted...
 

SolidQ

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2023
1,145
1,597
96
"RT is more memory hungry so it benefits more from larger cache and memory bandwidth
It's didn't help to 5080 vs 4080, despite 4080 have 76 RT cores, 5080 84 and higher memory bandwidth
11% only

4070 have 46, 5070 have 48
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,704
6,175
136
It's didn't help to 5080 vs 4080, despite 4080 have 76 RT cores, 5080 84 and higher memory bandwidth
11% only

4070 have 46, 5070 have 48


Some people really failing to read.

That Quote is NOT mine, it's the previous posters assumption that I was shooting down.

It's even in the sentence, you had to crop out, in your quote of me...

You should direct you reply to him, as that's his quote.
 

Hail The Brain Slug

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2005
3,623
2,766
136
Occurred on the PSU. He notes the PSU 12vhpwr pins are thinner than the ones on the GPU side.
It melted on both ends. I guess you're saying the initial failure was PSU side?

The standard is bad and needs to be replaced with a competently written spec that prescribes socket and pin design and tolerances sufficiently for manufacturers to make reliably compatible parts. Giving it a better margin for environmental factors would help as well.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
7,022
15,925
136
It melted on both ends. I guess you're saying the initial failure was PSU side?
Yes, and there are two things to consider here:
  • one subjective observation that the PSU connector has thinner pins (could be relevant, but it's hard to evaluate from our PoV)
  • one bigger question on whether the PSU conector is 12VHPWR or 12V-2x6
The owner claims their PSU is Asus Loki SFX-L, and had it for 2 years now. The new connector spec is only a bit over 1 year old. On the product page for the Loki, Asus talks about ATX 3.0 compatibility. Based on all of this, I think the connector is 12VHPWR.

If this is true, then we get a second moral of the story - if your PSU has a 12VHPWR connector, the new 12V-2x6 cable and safer specs won't help. One must avoid the PCB 12VHPWR connector like the plague.

Edit: many freaking typos
 

Hail The Brain Slug

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2005
3,623
2,766
136
Yes, and there are two things to consider here:
  • one subjective observation that the PSU connector has thinner pins (could be relevant, but it's hard to evaluate from our PoV)
  • one bigger question on whether the PSU conector is 12HPWR or 12V-2x6
The owner claims their PSU is Asus Loki SFX-L, and had it for 2 years now. The new connector is only a bit over 1 year old. On the product page for the Loki, Asus talks about ATX 3.0 compatibility. Based on all of this, I think the connector is 12HPWR.

If this is true, then we get a second moral of the story - if your PSU has a 12HPWR connector, the new 12V-2x6 cable and safer specs won't help. One must avoid the PCB 12HPWR connector like the plague.
The third party cable says its 12v2x6 spec, but the page is kind of ambiguous using 12vhpwr and 12v2x6 seemingly interchangeably
 
Reactions: Tlh97 and Mopetar

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
7,022
15,925
136
The third party cable says its 12v2x6 spec
The cable yes, but the big changes made by the new spec are to the PCB connector (on the card and the PSU). The cable side specs are almost identical, albeit with more detailed design criteria (both electrical and mechanical).
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,524
5,728
136
Buildzoid already posted a rant video...

tl;dw - even though the 5000 series implements the 12v2x6 spec on the connector side, the shorter sense pins may not be enough to prevent burnout.

He also talks about PCB work with shunt resistors that could be used to detect and prevent thermal overruns... they were present on 3000 series GPUs.

Edited for clarity.
 
Last edited:

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,704
6,175
136
Buildzoid already posted a rant video...

tl;dw - appears the aftermarket cable implemented the 12v2x6 spec so the shorter sense pins may not be enough to prevent burnout.

Shortened pins are in the connector, not the cable.

The PSU seems to be the originating side, and it was 2 years old, and I bet (after looking at images) that it doesn't have shortened sense pins.

I also wonder if it really has thinner power pins on the PSU. Which could be problematic, if the cable was used in the other orientation for 2 years on wider pins on the 4090 GPU, then that end was plugged in the PSU with narrower pins, it might be a slightly looser connection.
 

reb0rn

Senior member
Dec 31, 2009
258
86
101
those sense pin make zero help they are there only if connector is not plugged 100% and in most cases it is, juet the 12pin is overloaded and poor quality + dirt and it burn more so on 5090 which is overloading it even on regular use
 
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