8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

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BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,000
126
8GB
Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.
Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:
Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

10GB / 12GB

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.
  1. It's the player's fault.
  2. It's the reviewer's fault.
  3. It's the developer's fault.
  4. It's AMD's fault.
  5. It's the game's fault.
  6. It's the driver's fault.
  7. It's a system configuration issue.
  8. Wrong settings were tested.
  9. Wrong area was tested.
  10. Wrong games were tested.
  11. 4K is irrelevant.
  12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
  13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
  14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
  15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
  16. It's an anomaly.
  17. It's a console port.
  18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
  19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
  20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
  21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.
According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!
 
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poke01

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2022
3,330
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IEC said:
I got access through Steam, but it uses Denuvo, eww.

Maybe I'll just test it on the 14700K rig to see how it would run on a weaker GPU.
Click to expand...
I'll say this the starting of the game uses 8.5GB VRAM on 1440p and highest texure settings. RIP 10GB 3080s. 4k is a no go on those cards.

Also I wonder how the 4060 8GB will perform.
 
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Thunder 57

Diamond Member
Aug 19, 2007
3,405
5,631
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poke01 said:
I'll say this the starting of the game uses 8.5GB VRAM on 1440p and highest texure settings. RIP 10GB 3080s. 4k is a no go on those cards.

Also I wonder how the 4060 8GB will perform.
Click to expand...

How about the 5060/Ti 8GB? But hey DLSS4 and fake frames, right!? AMD and Intel (somewhat) got it right so far. 12GB (10GB B570) minimum in 2025. A quick search shows no availablity of the B580 and B570 though which is something that I haven't heard of yet.

EDIT I Take that back. There are B570's at B580's $250 MSRP. B580's are priced way too high if in stock, almost $100 over MSRP.
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
30,783
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Thunder 57 said:
How about the 5060/Ti 8GB? But hey DLSS4 and fake frames, right!?
Click to expand...
Frame gen uses vram, so does RT. DLSS still has not solved the IQ issues when starting from 1080. People buying Nvidia 8GB cards are getting ripped off. But ignorance is bliss I suppose.
Thunder 57 said:
AMD and Intel (somewhat) got it right so far. 12GB (10GB B570) minimum in 2025. A quick search shows no availablity of the B580 and B570 though which is something that I haven't heard of yet.

EDIT I Take that back. There are B570's at B580's $250 MSRP. B580's are priced way too high if in stock, almost $100 over MSRP.
Click to expand...
Newegg has the Onix and Sparkle B570 for $230 at the moment. The B580 models come in almost every day at various r/etailers, I get stock alerts. They sellout within an hour or 2. Be it Best Buy, B&H, Newegg. I could have bought every model the last week for their MSRP. Gunnir and Maxsun are smoking crack and not worth considering. Their prices even suck on AliExpress from what I can see.

My considered opinion after testing the B580 is there isn't a single NIB card worth buying below $300. The XFX 6750XT for $330 on Amazon is the least expensive card I'd recommend to U.S. buyers that I see readily available. Otherwise you make too many compromises. The 7600XT at $270 would be a good card. It's another $50+ though.

The narrative you get on the B580 is it is competitive with a 6700XT. That's ridiculous. CPU overhead, rebar, PCIe 3.0, no recording, streaming, or metrics overlay included. By far the worst retrogaming support. Dice throw as to whether or not a particular game engine will be broken with ARC.

AMD NEEDS to have a sub $300 card with 12GB soon. There is an opportunity to make the B580 irrelevant and control that market in retail. Nothing to be done in prebuilts, Nvidia has that on lockdown.
 
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R

Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
2,709
2,078
136
Not surprising sadly as Civ7 is also not getting good reviews. Bad optimization or just bad and rushed programming. A streamer I watch is usually either very pro a game or just vague about a game he doesn't like and quits playing it quickly. I tuned in the other night and he was openly stating that people should not buy it yet, that it needs more time in the oven.
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
30,783
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SolidQ said:
9600XT for 350 with 7800XT perf?
Click to expand...
The 3060 has the top 3 spots at Amazon U.S. and has been consistently outselling everything else for a good while now. The 6750XT I mentioned is in the 4th spot. They all sell for $300 to $330. You may be right; that kind of performance for $350 might go gangbusters/be wildly popular. Particularly since upscaling? and ray tracing is expected to be considerably better. Or is the FSR 4 supposed to work on older cards?
 
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I

igor_kavinski

Lifer
Jul 27, 2020
23,174
16,333
146
DAPUNISHER said:
AMD NEEDS to have a sub $300 card with 12GB soon.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, they like to mimic Nvidia too much so not seeing that happening. I hope I'm dead wrong though, for everyone's sake.

P.S. my company is kinda doing the same thing as AMD, except they are trying to mimic the largest company in the financial sector we operate in and that company is dead. We've hired tons of their crappy employees, in the hope that we can be great like them some day. So far, all it has done is bloat our expense sheet. They are following a policy of "ignore the existing, older employees and hope they will leave so we can hire more of the ex-employees of the once-largest-now-dead company". <<< People involved in making these decisions are getting paid $10K per month minimum.
 
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IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,560
5,952
136
Thunder 57 said:
How about the 5060/Ti 8GB? But hey DLSS4 and fake frames, right!? AMD and Intel (somewhat) got it right so far. 12GB (10GB B570) minimum in 2025. A quick search shows no availablity of the B580 and B570 though which is something that I haven't heard of yet.

EDIT I Take that back. There are B570's at B580's $250 MSRP. B580's are priced way too high if in stock, almost $100 over MSRP.
Click to expand...
B580 routinely gets in stock at $260. Usually lasts at least a few hours. Not worth $100 over MSRP but at $250 MSRP is reasonable. 12GB is the absolute minimum vRAM to get in 2025 for AAA gaming IMO.

I paid $259.99 + tax on my Intel Limited Edition from B&H Photo on a Friday. They shipped it 2-day FedEx and I got it on Sunday, 2 days later. I consider the extra $9.99 the 2-day shipping upcharge.
 
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Thunder 57

Diamond Member
Aug 19, 2007
3,405
5,631
136
DAPUNISHER said:
Frame gen uses vram, so does RT. DLSS still has not solved the IQ issues when starting from 1080. People buying Nvidia 8GB cards are getting ripped off. But ignorance is bliss I suppose.

Newegg has the Onix and Sparkle B570 for $230 at the moment. The B580 models come in almost every day at various r/etailers, I get stock alerts. They sellout within an hour or 2. Be it Best Buy, B&H, Newegg. I could have bought every model the last week for their MSRP. Gunnir and Maxsun are smoking crack and not worth considering. Their prices even suck on AliExpress from what I can see.

My considered opinion after testing the B580 is there isn't a single NIB card worth buying below $300. The XFX 6750XT for $330 on Amazon is the least expensive card I'd recommend to U.S. buyers that I see readily available. Otherwise you make too many compromises. The 7600XT at $270 would be a good card. It's another $50+ though.

The narrative you get on the B580 is it is competitive with a 6700XT. That's ridiculous. CPU overhead, rebar, PCIe 3.0, no recording, streaming, or metrics overlay included. By far the worst retrogaming support. Dice throw as to whether or not a particular game engine will be broken with ARC.

AMD NEEDS to have a sub $300 card with 12GB soon. There is an opportunity to make the B580 irrelevant and control that market in retail. Nothing to be done in prebuilts, Nvidia has that on lockdown.
Click to expand...

IEC said:
B580 routinely gets in stock at $260. Usually lasts at least a few hours. Not worth $100 over MSRP but at $250 MSRP is reasonable. 12GB is the absolute minimum vRAM to get in 2025 for AAA gaming IMO.

I paid $259.99 + tax on my Intel Limited Edition from B&H Photo on a Friday. They shipped it 2-day FedEx and I got it on Sunday, 2 days later. I consider the extra $9.99 the 2-day shipping upcharge.
Click to expand...

I don't have any alerts set up or anything. I just looked at one moment in time. Nice to see supply is keeping up.
 
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marees

Senior member
Apr 28, 2024
915
1,217
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marees said:
Releasing a $1,000+ GPU in 2025 with a crippling 16GB is a monopolistic crime against the consumer. 🤔🤔🤔

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885363355734413321
Click to expand...
Was pondering about this

8gb & 12gb are clearly insufficient due to consoles

16gb on 9070xt is fine for the gaming capabilities of the card (pro version will have 32gb & releasing next quarter)

Initially I was agreeing strongly with Snowden that 16gb is insufficient considering that "future" games would max at 16+gb vram (indiana jones already exceeds but texture cache is configurable)

However now I realize that before the time such future games arrive your 5080 might have blown up & so the 16gb vram could be a moot issue. In case your 5080 lasts more than 3 years you should just be grateful that it didn't blow up (& reduce the max settings while singing the praises of Jensen)
 
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I

igor_kavinski

Lifer
Jul 27, 2020
23,174
16,333
146
marees said:
However now I realize that before the time such future games arrive your 5080 might have blown up & so the 16gb vram could be a moot issue. In case your 5080 lasts more than 3 years you should just be grateful that it didn't blow up (& reduce the max settings while singing the praises of Jensen)
Click to expand...
I think they should create a special 5080 emergency rig (only use it if a game falls below 30 fps on their daily RTX 4080 SUPER rig). That way, maybe they will cross 5 years.
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
30,783
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GodisanAtheist said:
-Yeah but MY card has 16GB of VRAM and it never has any issues (on all the retro late 90's game remasters I play on it) SO IT SHOULD BE ENOUGH FOR EVERYONE!
Click to expand...
No no no, correct settings™ is the answer. If you are having vram issues, you are not using correct settings™
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
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Timorous said:
It is the devs, they are just all ai robots who cannot be bothered to optimise for the vast majority of GPUs. Sure we have had 16GB cards for 5 decades but who needs more right?
Click to expand...
I dislike the amount of truth in the statement about poor optimization though. It is probably the strongest defense the "losing side" offers. I am playing Rise of the Tomb Raider, and the game looks and plays amazing for how little vram is uses. Something certainly went wrong somewhere. Hell, look at how well Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 runs on 8GB cards.
 
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GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,753
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DAPUNISHER said:
I dislike the amount of truth in the statement about poor optimization though. It is probably the strongest defense the "losing side" offers. I am playing Rise of the Tomb Raider, and the game looks and plays amazing for how little vram is uses. Something certainly went wrong somewhere. Hell, look at how well Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 runs on 8GB cards.
Click to expand...

- Yeah these ~2016 era pre-TAA, pre-RT games are absolutely stunning and offer a remarkable rebuttal of the "DLSS better than Native", "RT all the things" and "MOAR VRAM" that has infected the entire gaming market.

No TAA means everything doesn't have that dogcrap temporal "halo" around it and smudginess like every modern game with a lame TAA solution seems to have.

Lighting effects are incredible with negligible performance cost. Is it true to life lighting and reflection? No, but neither is RT but these games don't have the obscene performance overhead.

Textures look great and varied, environments are unique and expansive, and yet somehow the game's manage to work within a 6/8GB VRAM buffer without issue...
 
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T

ToTTenTranz

Senior member
Feb 4, 2021
381
729
136
DAPUNISHER said:
Something certainly went wrong somewhere. Hell, look at how well Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 runs on 8GB cards.
Click to expand...

I believe a good part of the problem is the raytracing bloat that devs have been adopting as per Nvidia's "request" and marketing co-sponsorship, as the BVH tree occupies quite a bit of VRAM by itself.


The funniest thing is that Nvidia is now promoting neural-network generated textures to save VRAM space.... but on the other hand demand a ton of tensor throughput. On the 4090 it's taking no less than a 16% hit, so I imagine it'll be something like 35% or more on a RTX 5060 8GB.. which is the card that actually needs AI-generated textures.






So we reached a point where Nvidia had to come up with a Nvidia-only solution (neural textures) to a problem that originated in a Nvidia-led feature that only runs decently in Nvidia hardware (raytracing). A problem that is even perpetuated by Nvidia's choice of hardware specs (low VRAM amounts in expensive GPUs for planned obsolescence).


But this isn't surprising. It's pretty much how Nvidia has been maintaining their monopoly for the last decade. By manipulating devs into implementing features that only runs well in their N generation GPUs, but terribly in their N-1 generation GPUs and even worse in the competition.
Who doesn't remember the sub-pixel triangles in Geralt's hair, or the ultra-tessellated godrays in AC IV Blackflag a decade ago because they had decided to supercharge their geometry engine?
Or before that, the PhysX CPU path runnning on x87 instructions from the 90s just to kill performance on anything that wasn't a Tesla/Fermi GPU.
 
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M

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,871
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136
ToTTenTranz said:
I believe a good part of the problem is the raytracing bloat that devs have been adopting as per Nvidia's "request" and marketing co-sponsorship, as the BVH tree occupies quite a bit of VRAM by itself.


The funniest thing is that Nvidia is now promoting neural-network generated textures to save VRAM space.... but on the other hand demand a ton of tensor throughput. On the 4090 it's taking no less than a 16% hit, so I imagine it'll be something like 35% or more on a RTX 5060 8GB.. which is the card that actually needs AI-generated textures.




So we reached a point where Nvidia had to come up with a Nvidia-only solution (neural textures) to a problem that originated in a Nvidia-led feature that only runs decently in Nvidia hardware (raytracing). A problem that is even perpetuated by Nvidia's choice of hardware specs (low VRAM amounts in expensive GPUs for planned obsolescence).


But this isn't surprising. It's pretty much how Nvidia has been maintaining their monopoly for the last decade. By manipulating devs into implementing features that only runs well in their N generation GPUs, but terribly in their N-1 generation GPUs and even worse in the competition.
Who doesn't remember the sub-pixel triangles in Geralt's hair, or the ultra-tessellated godrays in AC IV Blackflag a decade ago because they had decided to supercharge their geometry engine?
Or before that, the PhysX CPU path runnning on x87 instructions from the 90s just to kill performance on anything that wasn't a Tesla/Fermi GPU.
Click to expand...
Or the DX11 update to Crysis 2 that tanked AMD performance in order to display the world's most accurate Jersey barriers. As you say, it's been Nvidia's MO for decades.
 
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