Doesn’t compete directly with dgpus (in terms of perf/$)
But it is more the package as a whole to compete with 4060/4070 tier GPUs. The ROG Flow is a perfect showcase of this
Doesn’t compete directly with dgpus (in terms of perf/$)Most of the IOD is occupied by a gigantic GPU with Infinity Cache, AMD themselves presented gaming benchmarks in the announcement slide deck and the very first product on shelves to bring Strix Halo was the Asus Republic Of Gamers Flow Z13 that even says the word GAMERS on the top.
View attachment 117587
But it wasn't designed for games. AMD just accidentally put there their biggest PC iGPU ever. The whole thing just slipped in there by accident during design.
They really didn't mean to compete with discrete GPUs like at all.
It's like Viagra.
Doesn’t compete directly with dgpus (in terms of perf/$)
But it is more the package as a whole to compete with 4060/4070 tier GPUs. The ROG Flow is a perfect showcase of this
You're judging this by one single design? That targets one single 2kilobuck price point?Doesn’t compete directly with dgpus (in terms of perf/$)
If it is similar in battery life to a dGPU machine at low load, then it's not using 1W package power, or it can do 1W but it's useless such as with Icelake's great do nothing battery that plummets the instant you do more than the simplest 1 tab text browsing.From what we've seen STX-H seems very similar to what STX+dGPU does for idle power.
Ok, that's a positive I did not consider. Still you are redesigning for additional 128 lanes on the board which increases both layout complexity and actual cost.What do you mean "you need to start putting dedicated VRAM", the whole point of an APU is that you have a single shared pool of memory.
And on Strix Halo, just regular old LPDDR5X-8000 memory modules are used.
You can pair any CPU with the dGPU, Intel and AMD. I'm not talking about user flexibility, that has gone the way of the dodo since 15 years ago. dGPU is part of the board but it's still mostly separate.The only real spot where you lose flexibility is if you need that APU to compete with multiple different dGPU dies, say for example you build a big IOD to compete with AD104, but you also need to cut it down to compete with AD106 based laptops. That... Doesn't seem to be the case here, from what it looks like. Strix Halo looks very focused on competing with AD106.
So to get their top config iGPU on desktop APU you need to buy a $350 chip, and for poor performance(respectable for an iGPU, but). And you look at the pricing on their graphics division, including the rumored ones for RDNA4.That's speculation we don't really have a good basis for, frankly. What we do have are the prices of the old Z13 and the prices of the new ones. The top end of the older Z13 outstrips even the 128GB 395 model in terms of pricing. No matter how you look at it, the main issue with Strix Halo pricing is that evidently the 390 is priced much too close to the 395. That's it.
If it is similar in battery life to a dGPU machine at low load, then it's not using 1W package power, or it can do 1W but it's useless such as with Icelake's great do nothing battery that plummets the instant you do more than the simplest 1 tab text browsing.
It still means there's a significant battery life cost of doing a big iGPU.
Ok, that's a positive I did not consider. Still you are redesigning for additional 128 lanes on the board which increases both layout complexity and actual cost.
You can pair any CPU with the dGPU, Intel and AMD. I'm not talking about user flexibility, that has gone the way of the dodo since 15 years ago. dGPU is part of the board but it's still mostly separate.
So to get their top config iGPU on desktop APU you need to buy a $350 chip, and for poor performance(respectable for an iGPU, but). And you look at the pricing on their graphics division, including the rumored ones for RDNA4.
When did I ever suggest that Nvidia is taking $1000 for a 4070?And what they are suddenly going to give you significant discount over Nvidia on their halo APU?
How much do people believe Nvidia's portion of the total cost is? $1000 for RTX 4070 mobile?
Most of the IOD is occupied by a gigantic GPU with Infinity Cache, AMD themselves presented gaming benchmarks in the announcement slide deck and the very first product on shelves to bring Strix Halo was the Asus Republic Of Gamers Flow Z13 that even says the word GAMERS on the top.
View attachment 117587
But it wasn't designed for games. AMD just accidentally put there their biggest PC iGPU ever. The whole thing just slipped in there by accident during design.
They really didn't mean to compete with discrete GPUs like at all.
It's like Viagra.
Costs of Intel CPUs are widely available on their Ark site. Now imagine that Nvidia charges more for laptop SKUs than for the desktop dies. Like 100-150$ more.It's cool, but only long term will prove whether it'll be a lasting product or not.
The appeal for iGPUs are:
-Battery life
-Form factor
-Cost, of which can greatly justify the above two
You go high end, and you lose the battery life advantage, even against dGPU systems, and the since the manufacturer of the SoC isn't doing it for charity but an opportunity for more revenue, it's no longer a free one like iGPUs are but whether you are actually saving money over a dGPU.
You are losing the flexibility of a dGPU, and it isn't all about savings either as you need to start putting dedicated VRAM, most likely with exotic packaging techniques.
If it's say $500 cheaper on that Asus system, then you must consider how much of that $500 is artificial tax by both Nvidia and the system manufacturer versus actual cost of production. Remember Nvidia has absolutely monopoly on laptops, even more lopsided than on desktops. Will it even be $100 cheaper on a <$1500 system?
They 100% intend to compete with dGPUs.Most of the IOD is occupied by a gigantic GPU with Infinity Cache, AMD themselves presented gaming benchmarks in the announcement slide deck and the very first product on shelves to bring Strix Halo was the Asus Republic Of Gamers Flow Z13 that even says the word GAMERS on the top.
View attachment 117587
But it wasn't designed for games. AMD just accidentally put there their biggest PC iGPU ever. The whole thing just slipped in there by accident during design.
They really didn't mean to compete with discrete GPUs like at all.
It's like Viagra.
I'm not pushing for anything you do you, configure all you like. The comment I made earlier is in regards to eek2121's experience with his ARM Mac on heavy/light loads and he wasn't happy with it and one reason I said is ARM Macs do not throttle CPU performance like x86 OEMs do. If ARM Macs throttled, would that have made a difference? Yes, I think so. It would have resulted in a longer run time.All that being said though, full CPU performance on battery is not necessarily the superior alternative you keep pushing for it to be.
So they will be 256-bit? Just higher clocked? When is LPDDR6?Yeah but only do much they can do with memory on board.
They always have the nuclear option tho.
You're judging this by one single design? That targets one single 2kilobuck price point?
Once infinity cache or 3DVcache is on the package, memory bandwidth will become irrelevant pretty much.So they will be 256-bit? Just higher clocked? When is LPDDR6?
HP Z2 Mini G desktops start at 1100-1200$, depending on generation. How much will it cost with Strix Halo?Given that Strix Point Laptops basically start at well over a thousand... yeah I'd expect the 256-bit SH models to start at 2k and up. The 128-bit SH model might be somewhere inbetween.
So they will be 256-bit? Just higher clocked? When is LPDDR6?
Yeah but only do much they can do with memory on board.
They always have the nuclear option tho.
No. That's babymode. Anyone can do that.By "nuclear option" maybe @adroc_thurston means moving to Memory On Package, like Apple
HBM is useless for this usecase since capacity would be pitiful.I wish the nuclear option was HBM3E or HBM4
No. That's babymode. Anyone can do that.
HBM is useless for this usecase since capacity would be pitiful.
It really isn't, when LPDDR is simple and lets you pop up to 128GB.12hi is 36GB. SK Hynix now does 16hi which is 48GB.
It's plenty.
It really isn't, when LPDDR is simple and lets you pop up to 128GB.
LPDDR is good for client. HBM isn't.
Also nope, max perf/W will be a MoP'd wider LPDDR.It is if you want to maximize performance per watt above 20W and/or on a smaller form factor
Capacity sucks, pop options suck.Like I mentioned, a single HBM3E stack of 36GB would provide enough bandwidth for a 60CU iGPU.
The iGPU is the top-tier thing there.Strix Halo turned out as I expected -> top tier CPU + mediocre iGPU.
It does not scale to 100W.I don't understand why AMD allowed Strix Halo to be placed first in a gaming tablet instead of a proper laptop with 100-125W TDP.
As a pure iGPU yes, but compared to dGPU It is mediocre, at least no Vram limitation is present.The iGPU is the top-tier thing there.
Says who? AMD stated cTDP is 120W.It does not scale to 100W.
Uhhh... Thats NOT Strix Halo. Thats Strix Point with 16 CU GPU.In a mini-PC:
I'm not impressed for gaming. He's running most games at 1080p medium and still needs FSR to get over 60 FPS.
It looks like it cost more than my PC I built with an RTX 4070 last year.