Discussion LMAO is Aussie Steve drunk posting? RX 5700XT vs RTX 3070 fine wine argument on X

DAPUNISHER · Feb 19, 2025

https://twitter.com/x/status/1891622565258690885

He is getting into it with randos 🤣

I've mentioned a number of times that my preorder Sapphire 5700XT was one of the worst experiences I've ever had with a video card. I sent it back within 24hrs and bought a 2060 super and 2070 super for my son and I. Every time I would check the owners thread here, some were still having headaches months later. For myself, it's another case of reviewer's Ferengi math with the nonsense he is spouting about a $500 2070 super being 25% more expensive. Best extra $100 I have ever spent on hardware. My 2070 super was a champ, the 5700XT waa a chump. DLSS 4 alone is enough to conclude it has aged better. RDNA is corked wine.

adroc_thurston · Feb 19, 2025

DAPUNISHER said:
DLSS 4 alone is enough to conclude it has aged better.

Xformer model is a slow poo on anything without FP8 support.
Neither GPU aged all that gracefully but that's a function of running out of VRAM.

DAPUNISHER · Feb 19, 2025

adroc_thurston said:
Xformer model is a slow poo on anything without FP8 support.
Neither GPU aged all that gracefully but that's a function of running out of VRAM.

I have to admit I have not seen it tested on the 20 series. I'll have a look. Even with the old CNN it's still better.

Ranulf · Feb 20, 2025

Why does Steve even care on this point? We're talking about a newer card by 14 months, it was $100 more on average via msrp/retail price that still had 8GB of vram and got rightly called out by many back then. I went with a 2060Super over the 5700 cards because I didn't trust the driver issues I'd read about, I didn't want to beta test amd hardware like I had Polaris' teething issues (not as bad as rdna1 apparently) with the rx480 cards I had. I also wanted a smaller card that used less power and a new nvidia card with 8GB of vram since I had the 480 card with 8GB already.

What were the issues with Sapphire 5700XT? Just the bugs I vaguely remember reading about? I had a middling experience with Sapphire Nitro RX 480 cards that had me take a break from the brand that generation even if I had gone with a 5700.

DAPUNISHER · Feb 20, 2025

Ranulf said:
Why does Steve even care on this point?

That's why I speculated he must be drunk posting. It makes no sense to debate randos on X over it.

Ranulf said:
We're talking about a newer card by 14 months, it was $100 more on average via msrp/retail price that still had 8GB of vram and got rightly called out by many back then. I went with a 2060Super over the 5700 cards because I didn't trust the driver issues I'd read about, I didn't want to beta test amd hardware like I had Polaris' teething issues (not as bad as rdna1 apparently) with the rx480 cards I had. I also wanted a smaller card that used less power and a new nvidia card with 8GB of vram since I had the 480 card with 8GB already.

What were the issues with Sapphire 5700XT? Just the bugs I vaguely remember reading about? I had a middling experience with Sapphire Nitro RX 480 cards that had me take a break from the brand that generation even if I had gone with a 5700.

I had excellent experiences with a 4GB 470, 8GB 580, and Vega56. That's why I preordered the 5700XT. If you search the AMD forum you can find my posts about it. The 2060 and 2070 supers were excellent for us. Perhaps that is why Steve is so vested in the debate. He was pro RDNA bang for buck and pimped it hard. IME and that of many other owners, it was a hot mess at any price and i consider the 20 series to be a far superior choice that generation.

Shmee · Feb 20, 2025

Curious as I had good experiences with both my 5700XT cards. Had a Powercolor Red Devil, and still have the Sapphire Nitro in another comp. Though I did not buy them on launch, but a 5700XT is generally considered a better deal than a 2070(super) given pricing around that time, at least for a while. Obviously prices change over time...

labayds · Feb 20, 2025

Currently have a gigabyte 5700xt bought second hand (with an unknown history) before the crazy GPU prizes in March 2021. It had been black screening randomly ever since I bought it. Did not bother to return it back then due to the craziness in GPU prizes and if I return it, i will be out of a GPU during the pandemic without guarantee if I will even get it back fixed.. Decided to stick with it despite the random black screen which would require a hard reboot.

It would happen without rhyme or reason. I can play for 3 hours and it would never occur for weeks. It can occur within 20 minutes of me starting a game and could suddenly occur 3x in a day. It would happen on numerous games (farcry 3, 4, 5, forza horizon 4, 5, cities skylines, etc)... It would pass repeated 3dmark tests but to me, it seems that it black screens when not really running a high load nor high temps. Temps seem to be fine usually hovering around 70C but the hotspots are admittedly high at 95C (but still within spec, hotspot max T is 110).

Tried eveything that google and reddit told me (PCIe link power management, over volt, under volt, underclock, all driver versions, ctrl-win-shift-B, etc) but it was never 100% fixed. Only thing I have not tried is replacing TIM

Still gaming on this card now but with the new 5070 / 9070, it might be time for me to move on. (or if I already have a replacement card, I might now have the courage to open it up and replace the TIM)

DAPUNISHER · Feb 20, 2025

Black screen was probably the number one reported issue with RDNA.

Mine was an absolute hot mess, literally. I'd had reference blower design cards before, but I was not ready for how loud and hot it ran OOB. Hardware acceleration for video playback in every browser was nerfed. It eventually locked itself to 800MHz and would not budge from there. A couple of fresh window installs, attempts to undervolt, nothing good happened. I asked Newegg to give me store credit as that was not their policy at the time. They agreed and I bought a EVGA 2060 super for the same price. I don't care what Steve or anyone else experienced. After that catastrophe the 2060 Super seem nigh perfect for my 1080 VRR monitor. Bought the 2070 Super and gave the 2060 super to my son to replace his 1060 6GB.

Steve has never had to use them as daily drivers, so his perspective is from the ivory tower. He runs tests and puts it back in the box. Live with it for a month then get back to us. I could have told him ARC had CPU overhead issues that nullify some of its value. He would never know because he does not daily drive the peasant tier hardware like an average gamer does. That's why he never had the black screens, hardware acceleration, or any other bug we saw. Had he, he would not be white knighting it vs randos on social media. DLSS and hardware RT are advantages, which he is downplaying. His "games where RT improves visuals" is nonsense, and part of the all or nothing testing fallacy. RT reflections in games like Cyberpunk and Spiderman series do not require pixel peeping to appreciate. Nor is it a performance killer on its own. The impact on VRAM and fps can be mitigated with DLSS. And since TAA is so bad in some games, may look better than native to some people.

poke01 · Feb 20, 2025

RDNA is all but dead now. Support also matters right? Meanwhile RTX 20 series still getting updates.

AMD needs to work on this more, hopefully they actually are for RDNA4. Software matters too, take that into account when looking at pricing as well.

I have actually tried RDNA on my 16” Intel MacBook. It has the 5300M 6GB dGPU, it was a POS GPU. Connecting it to external monitors made the fans go loud because the clock increased to near maximum and stayed there. This issue still is present on desktop RDNA GPUs today and even NV although less on ADA. (It’s because they cheap out on display controllers, but this doesn’t matter on desktop but on laptops it does very watt matters especially on 9th gen Intels.)

The 2020 27” iMac had the 5700 XT 16GB model and that had graphical issues on macOS which were resolved but RDNA as a whole wasn’t as bad on macOS as it was on Windows, mainly cause only Apple can approve the drivers for macOS and I bet they didn’t want crappy drivers like AMD provided on Windows.

Display lines on 27-inch iMac may be Radeon Pro 5700XT GPU issue | AppleInsider

A very small number of 27-inch iMac users are reporting issues with their Mac's graphics, with some encountering random screen glitches in the form of lines appearing on the display.

appleinsider.com

poke01 · Feb 20, 2025

DAPUNISHER said:
Black screen was probably the number one reported issue with RDNA.

This is also on Microsoft too, what does WHQL mean anymore if you assign that to bad drivers?

Drivers are a pain….

Beware: AMD's latest Microsoft certified WHQL driver might be bricking RDNA 2 RX 6000 GPUs

After the recent acknowledgment from AMD about 7900 XTX hotspot cooling issues, new trouble could be brewing as the latest WHQL driver might be bricking the company's RX 6000 series GPUs.

www.neowin.net

DAPUNISHER · Feb 20, 2025

poke01 said:
This is also on Microsoft too, what does WHQL mean anymore if you assign that to bad drivers?

Drivers are a pain….

Beware: AMD's latest Microsoft certified WHQL driver might be bricking RDNA 2 RX 6000 GPUs

After the recent acknowledgment from AMD about 7900 XTX hotspot cooling issues, new trouble could be brewing as the latest WHQL driver might be bricking the company's RX 6000 series GPUs.

www.neowin.net

That was a tempest in a teapot me thinks. I have used 7-8 RDNA 2 cards over the years with zero issues. My RX 6800 while sitting in box as a backup now, was outstanding for the near year it was my main gaming card.

RDNA not having mesh shaders evidently means you can't get Final Fantasy VII rebirth working in Linux. They got the 5700XT working with Indy Jones with software RT but the performance is bad. Meanwhile the 2070 Super just works in windows at 1440p with good settings -

Ranulf · Feb 21, 2025

DAPUNISHER said:
His "games where RT improves visuals" is nonsense, and part of the all or nothing testing fallacy. RT reflections in games like Cyberpunk and Spiderman series do not require pixel peeping to appreciate. Nor is it a performance killer on its own. The impact on VRAM and fps can be mitigated with DLSS. And since TAA is so bad in some games, may look better than native to some people.

It is all just amusing sometimes. Everyone has their reasons based on experience. HUB has loved its DLSS as a selling point for 3-4 years now but then sticks up for rdna1. It isn't all horrible but the longevity angle currently goes to the 8GB Turing cards overall. The less said about the 2060 or the 5600XT the better. The 5600xt really cheesed me off given its market prices on launch. It made the 5700 8GB look great, if you'd bought it 1-2 months earlier during holiday sales.

Shmee · Feb 21, 2025

poke01 said:
RDNA is all but dead now. Support also matters right? Meanwhile RTX 20 series still getting updates.

AMD needs to work on this more, hopefully they actually are for RDNA4. Software matters too, take that into account when looking at pricing as well.

I have actually tried RDNA on my 16” Intel MacBook. It has the 5300M 6GB dGPU, it was a POS GPU. Connecting it to external monitors made the fans go loud because the clock increased to near maximum and stayed there. This issue still is present on desktop RDNA GPUs today and even NV although less on ADA. (It’s because they cheap out on display controllers, but this doesn’t matter on desktop but on laptops it does very watt matters especially on 9th gen Intels.)

The 2020 27” iMac had the 5700 XT 16GB model and that had graphical issues on macOS which were resolved but RDNA as a whole wasn’t as bad on macOS as it was on Windows, mainly cause only Apple can approve the drivers for macOS and I bet they didn’t want crappy drivers like AMD provided on Windows.

Display lines on 27-inch iMac may be Radeon Pro 5700XT GPU issue | AppleInsider

A very small number of 27-inch iMac users are reporting issues with their Mac's graphics, with some encountering random screen glitches in the form of lines appearing on the display.

appleinsider.com

To my understanding, RDNA is still supported in latest Radeon drivers. As is Polaris and Vega. https://www.amd.com/en/support/down...eon-rx-5000-series/amd-radeon-rx-5700-xt.html as you can see still supported as of latest WHQL and latest beta. Now saying it is all but dead is certainly hyperbole. To my understanding, performance is still about on par with 2070(super) is it not?

Now it is true that RT is not hardware supported, but IMO if you care about RT you need to look at much newer, better cards anyway. IMO RT is overrated in general, and I would not support buying a new game that requires it at this point.

I will say the launch may have been a bit rough, especially with reference cards. It seems reference cards are often troublesome though, from what I have seen. Poorly adapted coolers/thermals, and this is not from recent AMD Radeon cards, it goes back to ATI Radeon cards and Geforce cards as well. Also I have heard of the black screen issues, makes we wonder if that was a hardware issue/defect in some cards, or a software/driver issue since fixed. Perhaps @DAPUNISHER could shine a bit more light on this from his experience and knowledge.

poke01 · Feb 21, 2025

Shmee said:
Now saying it is all but dead is certainly hyperbole

This was a hyberbole, yes its getting drivers updates but since it lacks the icing on the cake features like AI upscaling, and video super res. If RDNA1 had AI cores or "RDNA4 AI features" and mesh shaders in 2019, it would have aged much better.

Shmee said:
Now it is true that RT is not hardware supported, but IMO if you care about RT you need to look at much newer, better cards anyway. IMO RT is overrated in general, and I would not support buying a new game that requires it at this point.

I do agree with this, NV should not treated RT has main marketing point for 20 series.

maddogmcgee · Feb 21, 2025

I bought a 'new' Ali Express 5700xt a few months ago. For the price I am super happy compared to anything that is being sold new at the moment. Plugged into a 1080p tv with the kids PC, it has run anything we have tried. No dramas with drivers or below expected fps. Not bad for a 6 year old card.

Shmee · Feb 21, 2025

maddogmcgee said:
I bought a 'new' Ali Express 5700xt a few months ago. For the price I am super happy compared to anything that is being sold new at the moment. Plugged into a 1080p tv with the kids PC, it has run anything we have tried. No dramas with drivers or below expected fps. Not bad for a 6 year old card.

Hmm, I am curious, what brand did you get? What kind of cooler was on the card? I haven't shopped on Ali Express, but I know that a good used 5700XT may go for around $140, or at least last I checked. Though there are still some new RX 6600 cards that can be found for around $200.

Tup3x · Feb 21, 2025

DAPUNISHER said:
Black screen was probably the number one reported issue with RDNA.

Mine was an absolute hot mess, literally. I'd had reference blower design cards before, but I was not ready for how loud and hot it ran OOB. Hardware acceleration for video playback in every browser was nerfed. It eventually locked itself to 800MHz and would not budge from there. A couple of fresh window installs, attempts to undervolt, nothing good happened. I asked Newegg to give me store credit as that was not their policy at the time. They agreed and I bought a EVGA 2060 super for the same price. I don't care what Steve or anyone else experienced. After that catastrophe the 2060 Super seem nigh perfect for my 1080 VRR monitor. Bought the 2070 Super and gave the 2060 super to my son to replace his 1060 6GB.

Steve has never had to use them as daily drivers, so his perspective is from the ivory tower. He runs tests and puts it back in the box. Live with it for a month then get back to us. I could have told him ARC had CPU overhead issues that nullify some of its value. He would never know because he does not daily drive the peasant tier hardware like an average gamer does. That's why he never had the black screens, hardware acceleration, or any other bug we saw. Had he, he would not be white knighting it vs randos on social media. DLSS and hardware RT are advantages, which he is downplaying. His "games where RT improves visuals" is nonsense, and part of the all or nothing testing fallacy. RT reflections in games like Cyberpunk and Spiderman series do not require pixel peeping to appreciate. Nor is it a performance killer on its own. The impact on VRAM and fps can be mitigated with DLSS. And since TAA is so bad in some games, may look better than native to some people.

Random black screen issues are most annoying. My R9 290 had that (together with horrible idle power usage when my display ran at 75Hz). Three months and I sold the thing. There were other things too - NVIDIA Inspector is just so handy for certain things, especially when messing with older DX9 era games.

These days I like that NVIDIAs AF works in almost every game except Vulkan. There are surprisingly large amount of games out there with garbage default setting for AF that you can't change in game. DLSS support basically means that you can use DLAA and bypass garbage default TAA which is really handy in some games. V-sync settings too.

I do wonder how well Intel's AF and v-sync overrides work... AMD's driver settings are basically useless these days.

DAPUNISHER · Feb 21, 2025

maddogmcgee said:
I bought a 'new' Ali Express 5700xt a few months ago. For the price I am super happy compared to anything that is being sold new at the moment. Plugged into a 1080p tv with the kids PC, it has run anything we have tried. No dramas with drivers or below expected fps. Not bad for a 6 year old card.

I hope your remanufactured card proves to be long lived. Toasty Bros PC building biz stopped using the remanufactured Polaris cards because the failure rate in the first 6-12 months was way too high.

Polaris and Vega have not received any meaningful driver support for games in at least a year. https://www.anandtech.com/show/21126/amd-reduces-ongoing-driver-support-for-polaris-and-vega-gpus

RDNA is still fully supported. For the older cards you have to rely on 3rd party like R.ID.

Steve tries to play the 25% more expensive card, when a rando points out the 2070 super advantages over the 5700XT. But that is a bit disingenuous. On release day, if I wanted the better non reference models like Red Devil or Nitro, they were much closer to the price of the 2070 super. I think RT on the 20 series is about on par with AMD 6 series which ain't great, but some of the features are usable, and every game requiring hardware RT will run. Can't say that for RDNA. Upscaling also goes to Turing. Easy win IMO.

Steve obsesses over Ferengi math too much. If he had to buy the cards with his own money, then live with them for a while, he change his tune. That's what I did, and the 2070 Super is easily the winner of that generation in the $400-$500 range. With hindsight especially so.

Alan Walks 2 was another game where RDNA was completely broken before the patch, due to mesh shaders. Afterwards it is still a bad time on windows because of frame pacing issues -

The 2070 super has none of those issues -

You can argue it's because they are Nvidia sponsored showcase games. But that doesn't help RDNA run them any better in windows.

GodisanAtheist · Feb 21, 2025

Some people just like defending the underdog, and by gawd is AMD the underdog vs Nvidia. Might just be a mental exercise by Steve, sometimes its fun to argue as the devil's advocate. When all else fails, remember, this is the internet: humanity's mental toilet.

Reminds me of that great quote from The Expanse:

"You know what your problem is? You think that just cause someone is the underdog, that they're the good guy"

DAPUNISHER · Feb 21, 2025

GodisanAtheist said:
Some people just like defending the underdog, and by gawd is AMD the underdog vs Nvidia.

It would not surprise me if RDNA is why AMD market share has been declining ever since. I bought 4 RTX from 2 gens before giving AMD another chance. And that was only because Nvidia jumped the shark yet again, with highly anti consumer practices.

GodisanAtheist said:
Might just be a mental exercise by Steve, sometimes its fun to argue as the devil's advocate.

No, he is defending his work and recommendations; it's ego driven IMO. And perhaps alcohol...

GodisanAtheist said:
Reminds me of that great quote from The Expanse:

"You know what your problem is? You think that just cause someone is the underdog, that they're the good guy"

"Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun." Shiny leather Jacket Man probably

EDIT: 2060 super, 2070 super, 3060 12GB, 3060ti. I think @VirtualLarry sold me some of his mining fleet RX 6600s is how I first tried AMD again.

Ranulf · Feb 21, 2025

DAPUNISHER said:
You can argue it's because they are Nvidia sponsored showcase games. But that doesn't help RDNA run them any better in windows.

True but its Alan Wake 2, a walking horror simulator and an Epic exclusive still to this day. It is basically irrelevant gaming wise and I wouldn't use it as a test these days for anything other than something like this oddball data point for amusement. It is another overhyped RT game that maybe looks pretty if you bought an overpriced gpu that could maybe run it decently, with upscaling. Yay.

I remember in late Nov 2019, the 2060Super I bought, an MSI suprim gaming or whatever, was $30-50 cheaper than a custom AIB 5700XT that were going for $430-450, not including a $30 rebate and a free cod game. Those two brought the final cost to $315 or so. I mostly needed a new Nvidia card, the 2060 was a joke and I wanted a card that was smaller, used less power and would later fit into an itx build. Which it finally will, 5 years later hah. I almost went with a regular rx5700 but those were $350 or so if I remember right.

DAPUNISHER · Feb 21, 2025

Ranulf said:
True but its Alan Wake 2, a walking horror simulator and an Epic exclusive still to this day. It is basically irrelevant gaming wise and I wouldn't use it as a test these days for anything other than something like this oddball data point for amusement.

You may consider almost 2 million sales irrelevant, but it is to all those players, and the potential new ones. Because when it does hit the Steam store, no telling how many copies it will be up to. Especially with a discounted price because it's an older game at that point. Delaying is smart, there will be less user reviews ripping it for running so badly on their systems. Not that there won't be a metric 💩ton regardless.

And it misses the point. 5700XT isn't going to run Doom the Dark Ages either. Certainly even if patchable, it'll run badly like Indy and Alan. There will be others. Geomeans and 99.9% of games run well on the 5700XT talking points are all well and good. That's not the debate, it's which has aged better. Turing has definitely aged better.

GodisanAtheist · Feb 21, 2025

DAPUNISHER said:
You may consider almost 2 million sales irrelevant, but it is to all those players, and the potential new ones. Because when it does hit the Steam store, no telling how many copies it will be up to. Especially with a discounted price because it's an older game at that point. Delaying is smart, there will be less user reviews ripping it for running so badly on their systems. Not that there won't be a metric 💩ton regardless.

And it misses the point. 5700XT isn't going to run Doom the Dark Ages either. Certainly even if patchable, it'll run badly like Indy and Alan. There will be others. Geomeans and 99.9% of games run well on the 5700XT talking points are all well and good. That's not the debate, it's which has aged better. Turing has definitely aged better.

- Bruh, how many of those 2 million sales are on PC.

Irrelevant to the argument if the sales are on console...

Game was also bankrolled by Epic, so long odds on it ever making it to Steam. It was always intended as a loss leader to get people over to EGS.

DAPUNISHER · Feb 21, 2025

GodisanAtheist said:
- Bruh, how many of those 2 million sales are on PC.

Irrelevant to the argument if the sales are on console...

Game was also bankrolled by Epic, so long odds on it ever making it to Steam. It was always intended as a loss leader to get people over to EGS.

We'll see if it comes to Steam or not. I predict it does. And it still is missing the point. It does not matter if it sold horribly on PC or not, it represents a new generation of games that RDNA is not invited to.

maddogmcgee · Feb 22, 2025

Shmee said:
Hmm, I am curious, what brand did you get? What kind of cooler was on the card? I haven't shopped on Ali Express, but I know that a good used 5700XT may go for around $140, or at least last I checked. Though there are still some new RX 6600 cards that can be found for around $200.

It was a Soya. I paid in AUD but it looks like 130 USD delivered. As long as you realise the die is used, I think it is a pretty decent deal. The cooler felt very cheap but it works fine. When you consider that the new alternative would be a rx 6500xt running on pcie 3, it seems like it was worth the gamble.

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