Congratulations conservatives, you got your King. The Constitution is dead.

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VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,321
9,053
136
Is there some kind of pattern? I do admit Bannon's is pretty half-assed here, but that could be for plausible deniability reasons.
And if he were anyone other than Bannon, I might entertain the notion. But given that it IS Bannon, yeah, I believe this was a calculated maneuver.
But a French far-right leader agreed. The ADL agreed.

Him in video context:
View attachment 117802

Sloppy Steve needed some attention. He learned that in prison. Not even the sexual predators in the clink wanted a piece of those sloppy cheeks.

Matt Schlapp is meeting with anyone interested in the men's room at the end of the CPAC front hall.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,321
9,053
136
Lol! ... Even a Nazi like Nick Fuentes thinks this is getting "odd".


Sloppy Steve getting beat up from SuperNazi Richard Spencer:

Steve Bannon is a Roman Catholic Irishman ... a nationalist and populist ... a self-described Christian-Zionist ... a man who denounces racism and demands greater representation of African-Americans at tech companies ... and a man who lazily initiates a Hitler GruB just before saying ‘Amen,’”

“The Manson Family had a more coherent ideology than MAGA. And the liberal criticism that American "fascism" is merely a personality cult around Trump seems justified,” he added. “At least Elon—an atheist eugenicist obsessed with rockets—seems to have really meant it!”

Lol!
 
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BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
65,296
13,570
146
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
19,473
13,058
136
Does anyone else find it a bit odd that the GQP are throwing around Nazi salutes?

The reasons to do it are kind of obvious, like most neo-nazis identify with Nazi-ism because they see it as a symbol of power and the ideology is semi-aligned with theirs, and it's a symbol of power that everyone else recognises too.

The reasons against it from a hypothetical perspective of a "we're the latest flavour of the master race" kind of vibe is again the point of a recognisable symbol of power of the most evil thing that most people can think of, not only that but a movement that was defeated, and many countries' "national pride" at least stems from opposing the Nazis... usually these pricks consider themselves to be alpha males, yet they're not coming up with some new symbol or movement for themselves (which surely would result in a lot more uncertainty about what this new flavour of <whatever supremacy> is about), isn't it a bit of a beta move, e.g. who the hell are these guys saluting?

Sure, bigots aren't generally known for their originality, and while these bigots are borrowing from a shitload of other bigoted beliefs (e.g. LGBTQ are paedos, women should be treated like baby factories with few rights), which one might argue ends up drawing strength through numbers from those other bigoted groups, surely like >90% of pretty much every one of those bigoted groups would say they don't like Nazis?

One can also argue that the attempted normalisation of Nazi-ish stuff all part of the strategy, but isn't it a much simpler and therefore better strategy to come up with something new? Even if the Nazi-ish stuff (e.g. Hitler salutes) is all done in secret?
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
39,419
9,290
136
I have some faith that no one man can turn the USA into a monarchy no matter who, and Trump's pretty stupid and lame. His stupidity is part of his strength, oddly enough. He doesn't know history, doesn't understand the structure of the government. He doesn't know how to solve problems so he tries throwing shit at the wall to see what will stick when he doesn't like his situation.

Problem is there are tons of Americans including some on the SCOTUS who aren't very smart. However there are a lot of Americans who are not stupid, which we will see.

In the future, adjustments have to be made to protect the country from a scoundrel in the White House. The ones we have are clearly insufficient. A highly partisan congress makes the impeachment process as currently formulated useless (2/3 of Senate needed for confirmation). A foolish Supreme Court cannot be allowed to make partisan decisions that blemish or negate the intentions laid down in the constitution.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
14,299
9,139
136
I have some faith that no one man can turn the USA into a monarchy no matter who, and Trump's pretty stupid and lame. His stupidity is part of his strength, oddly enough. He doesn't know history, doesn't understand the structure of the government. He doesn't know how to solve problems so he tries throwing shit at the wall to see what will stick when he doesn't like his situation.

Problem is there are tons of Americans including some on the SCOTUS who aren't very smart. However there are a lot of Americans who are not stupid, which we will see.

In the future, adjustments have to be made to protect the country from a scoundrel in the White House. The ones we have are clearly insufficient. A highly partisan congress makes the impeachment process as currently formulated useless (2/3 of Senate needed for confirmation). A foolish Supreme Court cannot be allowed to make partisan decisions that blemish or negate the intentions laid down in the constitution.

Well if we're doing "fantasy Constitutional Amendments", it seems to me the most important thing would be to change the way senators, congresspeople, and EC votes are distributed.

Because at the moment all of those massively-over represent old white people, because of the stupid way they are allocated (a bias that demographic trends are only going to make worse, unless at some point a tipping point is reached where things flip to the opposite?). That's why the legislature is deadlocked to the point of irrelevance, allowing an imperial Presidency to grab autocratic power in its place.
Though the excessive power of the Supreme Court is another problem.

In any case there seems to be no way of fixing any of it, because the Constitution was badly designed, so as to be near-impossible to amend to keep up with changing circumstances.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
8,298
6,940
136
I have some faith that no one man can turn the USA into a monarchy no matter who, and Trump's pretty stupid and lame.
Do you think the military is going to oppose him? Short of that he is king. The congress and judiciary have ceded power to him so the executive is all that's left. Which makes it a monarchy.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,053
16,211
136
Well if we're doing "fantasy Constitutional Amendments", it seems to me the most important thing would be to change the way senators, congresspeople, and EC votes are distributed.

Because at the moment all of those massively-over represent old white people, because of the stupid way they are allocated (a bias that demographic trends are only going to make worse, unless at some point a tipping point is reached where things flip to the opposite?). That's why the legislature is deadlocked to the point of irrelevance, allowing an imperial Presidency to grab autocratic power in its place.
Though the excessive power of the Supreme Court is another problem.

In any case there seems to be no way of fixing any of it, because the Constitution was badly designed, so as to be near-impossible to amend to keep up with changing circumstances.

The fix is relatively easy but politically impossible in this current climate, even without Trump. Until voters start continuously voting out republicans we’ll be stuck in this mess for a while.

The fix:

Increase the total number of House representatives. At least double but preferably triple the amount. This will give everyone better representation and mellow out the extremists.

Revamp the judicial system/branch. The number of judges across the board need to increase, including at the Supreme Court. How cases are brought up at the various levels needs to be changed to eliminate judge shopping. Besides expanding the Supreme Court, cases need to be handled by random assignment to smaller factions of SC judges (something like 5 judges per case).

Lastly, there needs to be campaign finance reform and the overturning of citizens United. I personally don’t have the knowledge to recommend what kind of charges are needed so anyone has ideas or knows of any particular proposals, please chime in.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,897
10,083
136
The fix is relatively easy but politically impossible in this current climate, even without Trump. Until voters start continuously voting out republicans we’ll be stuck in this mess for a while.

The fix:

Increase the total number of House representatives. At least double but preferably triple the amount. This will give everyone better representation and mellow out the extremists.

Revamp the judicial system/branch. The number of judges across the board need to increase, including at the Supreme Court. How cases are brought up at the various levels needs to be changed to eliminate judge shopping. Besides expanding the Supreme Court, cases need to be handled by random assignment to smaller factions of SC judges (something like 5 judges per case).

Lastly, there needs to be campaign finance reform and the overturning of citizens United. I personally don’t have the knowledge to recommend what kind of charges are needed so anyone has ideas or knows of any particular proposals, please chime in.

First step is overturning citizens united. I don't think the rest is possible without that.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
39,419
9,290
136
Do you think the military is going to oppose him? Short of that he is king. The congress and judiciary have ceded power to him so the executive is all that's left. Which makes it a monarchy.
I don't see that. The SC decided in a vote that presidents are immune from prosecution for crimes committed by virtue of actions made in the service of their duties. That's not the same as ceding power. The judiciary can declare an EO unconstitutional. Trump said he'd go along with judge's decisions. We know everything he says is a lie, but he's at least pretending he'll honor the courts directives. Some of the things he's trying to do will meet intense backlash. He's bound to be upset at falling polls. That could have an effect. And this:

 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,241
1,725
126
I don't see that. The SC decided in a vote that presidents are immune from prosecution for crimes committed by virtue of actions made in the service of their duties. That's not the same as ceding power. The judiciary can declare an EO unconstitutional. Trump said he'd go along with judge's decisions. We know everything he says is a lie, but he's at least pretending he'll honor the courts directives. Some of the things he's trying to do will meet intense backlash. He's bound to be upset at falling polls. That could have an effect. And this:

I have become fully drowned in pessimism. Its difficult to imagine any way out of this horror short of years of sustained unimaginably horrible eruptions of violence, death, destruction, andchaos, on a scale not seen since the 1940s. I really hope i'm just losing my mind. I am secure here for now, but, i worry about Ukraine, I worry about all the LGBTQ folks, i worry about all the workers who can barely survive, i worry about all the retirees who are going to suffer worse due to loss of benefits. I worry about total economic collapse. I don't know how to turn off the worry. I just save some cash, and consider getting in some range time and arming myself a bit more, maybe getting the wife used to firing a gun as well. I hope for peace, but, it just feels hopeless right now.
 
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SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
8,298
6,940
136
I don't see that. The SC decided in a vote that presidents are immune from prosecution for crimes committed by virtue of actions made in the service of their duties. That's not the same as ceding power. The judiciary can declare an EO unconstitutional. Trump said he'd go along with judge's decisions. We know everything he says is a lie, but he's at least pretending he'll honor the courts directives. Some of the things he's trying to do will meet intense backlash. He's bound to be upset at falling polls. That could have an effect. And this:

I don't take solace in any of those things Reich writes, it's pure cope and ignoring the fact we now live in an outright fascist dictatorship. Trump's and Elon's shock and awe campaign is succeeding. His poll numbers mean jack shit when he can steal the election by killing the watchdogs and taking over the USPS. Demonstrations are meaningless until they're in DC at his doorstep and literally threatening his power, at which point the army rank and file deployed to the streets will choose the victor. It's why Trump is purging the military leadership right now, same as Hitler, same as Stalin. You gotta stop being in such denial about where we're at as a nation.
 
Last edited:

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,634
8,699
136
I have become fully drowned in pessimism.
Yeah. Been there since the 2020 election results. 2024 has not helped.
I love me some Robert Reich, but I don't feel what he is selling here.

He is saying the backlash is building and the courts are ruling....
No one can change Trump single handedly destroying NATO and tearing down everything America built since World War 2.
And if he wants to make good on attacking all our neighbors... the time for words has long since past.

Suppose that's a whole other ball game, but Reich is speaking from a notion of... if civil society still exists.... it shows some signs of life.
But I ask, to what end?

I go back to the 2020 election. Only sign of life was electing an old fossil who was given ZERO power in Congress.
If that's the best we can do for an entire decade... surely bullets are the only answer.
Republicans refuse to police their own. Republicans keep endorsing it... MORE and MORE.

And then we have a very good idea where the MAGA Nazi movement goes next.
America has already died. Any civility remaining is just a corpse twitching its final throws. How is it not?
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
8,298
6,940
136
I have become fully drowned in pessimism. Its difficult to imagine any way out of this horror short of years of sustained unimaginably horrible eruptions of violence, death, destruction, andchaos, on a scale not seen since the 1940s. I really hope i'm just losing my mind. I am secure here for now, but, i worry about Ukraine, I worry about all the LGBTQ folks, i worry about all the workers who can barely survive, i worry about all the retirees who are going to suffer worse due to loss of benefits. I worry about total economic collapse. I don't know how to turn off the worry. I just save some cash, and consider getting in some range time and arming myself a bit more, maybe getting the wife used to firing a gun as well. I hope for peace, but, it just feels hopeless right now.
The people who think we're not effectively in 1930's Germany are the same ones who bought the toxic positivity of the Democrats leading up to the election and then were shocked when Harris lost. You gotta be nuts to not be scared shitless.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
14,299
9,139
136
I don't see that. The SC decided in a vote that presidents are immune from prosecution for crimes committed by virtue of actions made in the service of their duties. That's not the same as ceding power.

The issue is probably more that that ruling gave Trump far more confidence about just going ahead and acting like a despot. Regardless of whether it legitimizes despotism in a legal sense, I suspect it does just that in Trump's head.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
14,299
9,139
136
The fix is relatively easy but politically impossible in this current climate, even without Trump. Until voters start continuously voting out republicans we’ll be stuck in this mess for a while.

I think that understates the problem. It doesn't matter what most voters do, because the system is so skewed to over-represent voters in low-population states, which means in effect, older whiter voters. And that skew seems set to get worse over time.


And the skewed nature of the Senate also affects the distribution of EC votes (which also has the separate problem of being all-or-nothing for many states - possibly an easier problem to fix), and who gets onto the over-powerful Supreme Court, so it's an interlocking system that's becoming increasingly less democratic. Plus the distribution of Congress people is also skewed, if not as badly.

While it is not uncommon that small subnational units in federal systems receive some extra voting power in the national legislature, this population ratio for states with equal voting power in the Senate is extraordinary, creating a significant democratic deficit. Senators from states with a substantial majority of the national population can be a minority in the Senate; in early 2017, for example, the 52 Republican Senators represented states with about 144 million Americans, while the 48 Democratic-caucusing Senators represented states with 178 million. The smaller- population states’ undue influence in the Senate affects everything from federal legislation (including spending, which skews to the smaller-population states) to presidential elections, where the total number of electoral votes by state is determined by the total number of members of Congress that each state has — senators and House members. The Senate’s composition also affects voting to confirm or reject nominees to federal judgeships or other important positions and voting on whether to ratify treaties.


The fix:

Increase the total number of House representatives. At least double but preferably triple the amount. This will give everyone better representation and mellow out the extremists.

That's certainly part of the solution - in order to make the distribution less skewed you probably have to increase the total number.


Revamp the judicial system/branch. The number of judges across the board need to increase, including at the Supreme Court. How cases are brought up at the various levels needs to be changed to eliminate judge shopping. Besides expanding the Supreme Court, cases need to be handled by random assignment to smaller factions of SC judges (something like 5 judges per case).

Lastly, there needs to be campaign finance reform and the overturning of citizens United. I personally don’t have the knowledge to recommend what kind of charges are needed so anyone has ideas or knows of any particular proposals, please chime in.

Also probably necessary, but I don't see how most of this can be done because the existing system is resistant to any such reform, as it's self-sustaining and self-perpetuating.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
19,473
13,058
136
In the future, adjustments have to be made to protect the country from a scoundrel in the White House. The ones we have are clearly insufficient.

"The problem is our laws aren't protecting us because the government is ignoring them... let's make more laws, that will surely fix the problem"

The true problem is identifying rot and tearing it out before it compromises too much. It's a perennial and universal problem. America's rot has been ignored for too long because too many politicians sought to maintain their power rather than seeking out the rot.

America's current question ought to be how to remove the rot. IMO a multitude of revolutionary movements have to start as soon as possible and coalesce into a unified movement when the time is right. The most peaceful of revolutions, the most surgical of strokes that identify and remove the true problems would benefit America greatly, the chance of learn the most from this experience, perhaps as well as plenty of other countries out there that are at risk of falling into complete corruption.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,829
19,435
146
Reinstating the fairness doctrine, or something like that, to combat propaganda outlets would be a great piece to identifying lies and bullshit.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
30,525
27,377
146
I have become fully drowned in pessimism. Its difficult to imagine any way out of this horror short of years of sustained unimaginably horrible eruptions of violence, death, destruction, andchaos, on a scale not seen since the 1940s. I really hope i'm just losing my mind. I am secure here for now, but, i worry about Ukraine, I worry about all the LGBTQ folks, i worry about all the workers who can barely survive, i worry about all the retirees who are going to suffer worse due to loss of benefits. I worry about total economic collapse. I don't know how to turn off the worry. I just save some cash, and consider getting in some range time and arming myself a bit more, maybe getting the wife used to firing a gun as well. I hope for peace, but, it just feels hopeless right now.
Accelerationism is real, you are experiencing the effects. We have real life Bond villains enacting their evil plans. Drax, Blofeld, Greene, and Goldfinger have little use for most of us; we're ants. Why do you think Bezos has his own Navy? Or Zuckerbot is building a secure compound on an island? If shit goes really sideways/off the rails, they will ride it out.

The history of our species is a shitshow, with a few societies enjoying a brief respite from time to time. But for most of the species life has always been short, difficult, and painful.

It will not hurt your psychology for you and the Mrs to train and engage in some mild prepper cosplay. Knowing how to fight and shoot. Having bug out bags and survivalist gear. A basic plan of action for worst case scenario stuff. That's all going to keep you busy instead of worrying.

Worry never robs tomorrow of its sorrow, it only saps today of its joy.
 
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