Discussion Future ARM Cortex + Neoverse µArchs Discussion

Shivansps · Feb 25, 2025

DrMrLordX said:
One hopes availability on the Orion O6 (and RK3688) is better than the RK3588 which was delayed for so long.

RK3588 release was affected by COVID. And the RK3688 is petty much MIA, there has been no news since last october.

O6 is aparently already shipping, altrought mine still has not. They shipped to youtubers first.

Speaking of the RK3588, it looks like HDMI is finally working in the 6.14 mainline kernel, and the Panthor driver and Panfrost for the iGPU its good now, they really got it working. And it looks like Vulkan is not that far off now either.

I think the G610MC4 is around a Vega 3.

soresu · Feb 26, 2025

Well I certainly didn't expect this 3 months before the usual annual IP announcements...

Cortex A320, the belated v9-A followup to A35:

Introducing Cortex-A320: Ultra-efficient Armv9 CPU Optimized for IoT

Arm Cortex-A320, the first ultra-efficient Armv9 CPU, delivers advanced AI, security, and efficiency to power-constrained devices in the evolving IoT and edge AI landscape.

newsroom.arm.com

soresu · Feb 26, 2025

Quick highlights from the beginning....

Cortex-A320 the first ultra-efficient Cortex-A processor implementing the Armv9 architecture. Cortex-A320 is an AArch64 CPU, based on the Armv9.2-A version of the architecture. Its microarchitecture has been derived from Cortex-A520 but has been significantly optimized to improve area and power.

Efficiency improvements of over 50% compared to the Cortex-A520 are achieved through multiple microarchitecture updates. These include a narrow fetch and decode datapath, densely banked L1 caches, a reduced-port integer register file, and other optimizations.

Significant microarchitecture innovations, such as efficient branch predictors and pre-fetchers, as well as memory system improvements, have also boosted Cortex-A320’s scalar performance, by more than 30% in SPECINT2K6, compared to its predecessor, Cortex-A35.

It also has SVE2.

soresu · Feb 26, 2025

Another article from ARM includes this line of text that might indicate future SVE2 unit width increasing in their own mobile (ie Cortex) CPU cores...

Furthermore, SVE2 is “vector length agnostic”, which means code development will work on larger vector lengths, like 256b for example. This ensures forward compatibility with the ongoing evolution of mobile computing, which includes forthcoming process nodes that will favor logic scaling as opposed to RAMs. This means that the mobile market can accommodate larger vector lengths that benefit SVE code present in games and AI models.

DZero · Feb 26, 2025

This is curious, makes me think what to see in the A5XX, A7XX and A9XX

DrMrLordX · Feb 27, 2025

Shivansps said:
And the RK3688 is petty much MIA, there has been no news since last october.

Well that sucks. Good job again, Rockchip. Bleh.

Shivansps said:
O6 is aparently already shipping, altrought mine still has not.

I saw some entries for it on the usual Chinese sites with many "out of stock" indicators.

soresu · Feb 27, 2025

DZero said:
This is curious, makes me think what to see in the A5XX, A7XX and A9XX

Given there is every reason to believe an ISA increment from v9.2-A in that IP group announcement it does make sense that A320 was announced separately as it will not be fully ISA compatible.

It's definitely targeted at the space between microcontrollers and A5xx.

Shivansps · Feb 27, 2025

DrMrLordX said:
Well that sucks. Good job again, Rockchip. Bleh.

I saw some entries for it on the usual Chinese sites with many "out of stock" indicators.

Well i dont trust Rockchip anymore tbh, they look like as the new AllWinner. They barely provided any help to the mainline process what was mostly pushed by 3rd party vendors and ARM itself. HDMI support is just starting to work on the 6.14 kernel...

CIX seem far more involved so far, but they just started, it remains to be seen if it will hold. Also it looks like they are actually targeting ARM PCs and laptops with their soc.

soresu · Feb 27, 2025

Shivansps said:
CIX seem far more involved so far, but they just started, it remains to be seen if it will hold

I think it will, CIX was founded by an ex AMD engineer after all, and they have typically been very pro open source.

DZero · Feb 27, 2025

soresu said:
I think it will, CIX was founded by an ex AMD engineer after all, and they have typically been very pro open source.

If that so, expect a massive improvements in few months

naukkis · Mar 1, 2025

soresu said:
Another article from ARM includes this line of text that might indicate future SVE2 unit width increasing in their own mobile (ie Cortex) CPU cores...

That's a bit of wishful thinking. SVE shows it's SIMD-registers to software so it's length has to be defined for hardware - and for hybrid designs there are no other way than support that vector length in all cpu cores. So that is pretty much not and option for mobile devices. SME specification gives a better possibilities to do mobile-friendly designs - but that whole SME concept seems to be mess right now - at least they should define instructions that SME designs need to support.....

Nothingness · Monday at 6:37 AM

I don't remember this test of Google Axion on SPEC being previously cited.

Google Axion is a game-changerâââlet me show you why

In April of this year, at Next â24, Google introduced Axion, its first custom ARM-based CPU built specifically for datacenter workloadsâ¦

medium.com

MS_AT · Monday at 10:05 AM

Nothingness said:
I don't remember this test of Google Axion on SPEC being previously cited.

While it's nice to have some reference numbers, I find it surprising that Genoa is loosing to Milan in both nT Rate and normalized tests. What is even more surprising it's loosing heavily in FP. Either the author has chosen a curious normalization method and/or google does something weird with their Genoa instances, as it should not loose to Milan. Sorry for hijacking the topic

soresu · Monday at 10:37 AM

Nothingness said:
I don't remember this test of Google Axion on SPEC being previously cited.

Google Axion is a game-changerâââlet me show you why

In April of this year, at Next â24, Google introduced Axion, its first custom ARM-based CPU built specifically for datacenter workloadsâ¦

medium.com

For those who can't get past Medium's paywall I got the webpage archive to cache it:

https://archive.ph/CDwRN

Nothingness · Monday at 1:40 PM

soresu said:
For those who can't get past Medium's paywall I got the webpage archive to cache it:

https://archive.ph/CDwRN

That's strange, I have no issue accessing the site and I didn't subscribe to anything.

soresu · Monday at 1:41 PM

Nothingness said:
That's strange, I have no issue accessing the site and I didn't subscribe to anything.

It depends how many articles you view within a given time frame, might be a month.

MS_AT · 2025-03-18T15:07:08-0400

So nVidia is going to bring SMT to ARM (or most likely it's going to use ARM stock cores with SMT], I wonder does it mean than V4 cores will be SMT enabled

LightningDust · 2025-03-18T15:09:46-0400

MS_AT said:
So nVidia is going to bring SMT to ARM (or most likely it's going to use ARM stock cores with SMT], I wonder does it mean than V4 cores will be SMT enabled
View attachment 120244

It is not a Neoverse core.

MS_AT · 2025-03-18T15:11:54-0400

LightningDust said:
It is not a Neoverse core.

Do you mean to say, nVidia went custom route, or that is a core from X series?

adroc_thurston · 2025-03-18T15:11:57-0400

MS_AT said:
So nVidia is going to bring SMT to ARM (or most likely it's going to use ARM stock cores with SMT], I wonder does it mean than V4 cores will be SMT enabled
View attachment 120244

It's a custom core tho.

LightningDust · 2025-03-18T15:12:43-0400

MS_AT said:
Do you mean to say, nVidia went custom route, or that is a core from X series?

It is a custom core. It does not closely resemble anything ARM would design.

MS_AT · 2025-03-18T15:14:38-0400

LightningDust said:
It is a custom core. It does not closely resemble anything ARM would design.

Is that first custom one since Denver? [iirc the name]

Nothingness · 2025-03-18T15:16:04-0400

MS_AT said:
So nVidia is going to bring SMT to ARM (or most likely it's going to use ARM stock cores with SMT], I wonder does it mean than V4 cores will be SMT enabled

Arm already had an SMT core in the past: https://developer.arm.com/Processors/Cortex-A65

Not a very interesting one from the raw performance point of view.

LightningDust · 2025-03-18T15:16:10-0400

MS_AT said:
Is that first custom one since Denver? [iirc the name]

Denver was succeeded by Carmel. NVX is a new design that does not closely resemble anything in the Denver family.

LightningDust · 2025-03-18T15:20:36-0400

Nothingness said:
Arm already had an SMT core in the past: https://developer.arm.com/Processors/Cortex-A65

Not a very interesting one from the raw performance point of view.

I always thought A65/E1 was neat - a nicely balanced medium core with good resource utilization from SMT. Rare as hens' teeth in shipping silicon, though.

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