Part of me thinks he made a conscious decision to respond in a way that will force Europe to a decision point. Rolling the dice but not a lot of options in the face of a hostile US policy.
Holy shit, that transcript is incredible. On the one hand, huge kudos to Zelenskyy for standing up to two thugs representing daddy Vladdy.
OTOH he went so overboard with the truth that he knew there's no walking back from this.
I'm equally shocked and impressed at how directly Zelenskyy refuted every line from Trump & Vance. He's basically saying that Trump is a lapdog of Putin.
Europe goes its own way. I hope Starmer works out a reintegration deal with Europe as a result of Trump’s perfidy. The US is diminished and China is ascendant. I see no path forward for Russia other than to remain a minor regional basket case.so... what now
Continuing his professional wrestling heel persona, but now in tag team format!There is no way it wasn’t scripted.
We knew on November 6th that Trump was going to sell out UA. So yeah strategically what does Zelenskyy have to lose by accepting that reality?Part of me thinks he made a conscious decision to respond in a way that will force Europe to a decision point. Rolling the dice but not a lot of options in the face of a hostile US policy.
I think that a pan European defence treaty is probably the first thing that we need to do now that the US can't be trusted. (Much as I'd love to be part of the EU again)Odds are that a "rejoin" referendum in the UK would easily pass lol. Even if the deal was not the same as before.
I think that's it's a peculiarly US thing that you can't correct or question a politician!Holy shit, that transcript is incredible. On the one hand, huge kudos to Zelenskyy for standing up to two thugs representing daddy Vladdy.
OTOH he went so overboard with the truth that he knew there's no walking back from this.
I'm equally shocked and impressed at how directly Zelenskyy refuted every line from Trump & Vance. He's basically saying that Trump is a lapdog of Putin.
I think that a pan European defence treaty is probably the first thing that we need to do now that the US can't be trusted. (Much as I'd love to be part of the EU again)
We (the UK) need to decouple our nuclear deterrent from the US.Yes, including nuclear sharing agreement for EU underwritten warheads that are produced in the UK and France.
Yeah. I was preparing to order magnetic "Kill Krasnov" bumper stickers. What I'll say here, I still wouldn't put on my car.Anyone care to summarize?
There is no way it wasn’t scripted.
We (the UK) need to decouple our nuclear deterrent from the US.
The French made the right decision not to trust the US and to be totally independent with theirs.
Zelenskyy just fucking slaughtered him. Trump and Putin have a strong opponent in Zelenskyy.Interesting exchange. I wonder if earlier this week European leaders told him not to beg to Trump and they had his back.
ZELENSKYY: Putin broke the ceasefire. What kind of diplomacy, JD, are you even talking about?
VANCE: I think it's disrespectful to come into the Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of the American media.
ZELENSKYY: Disrespectful? My country is under attack, millions displaced, thousands killed—and you’re worried about optics?
TRUMP: Look, we have to be smart. We can’t just keep giving you blank checks.
ZELENSKYY: Blank checks? Every dollar goes to defending our people from an invasion. Meanwhile, you have no problem giving tax cuts to billionaires.
TRUMP: We need accountability. Americans want to know where their money is going.
ZELENSKYY: It’s going to keeping democracy alive. You talk about ‘America First,’ but if Ukraine falls, Russia doesn’t stop here.
VANCE: We just think Ukraine needs to be realistic.
ZELENSKYY: Realistic? Russia is committing war crimes. They’re kidnapping our children, bombing hospitals, executing civilians. Should we be ‘realistic’ and just accept that?
TRUMP: Look, if I was president before, this never would’ve happened.
ZELENSKYY: Because you would’ve handed Ukraine over. That’s not strength—it’s appeasement.
TRUMP: Putin respects me. We would’ve had peace in 24 hours.
ZELENSKYY: Peace or surrender? Because your idea of peace is giving Putin exactly what he wants.
TRUMP: You don’t have the cards right now. You have to be thankful.
ZELENSKYY: Thankful? For what? For being forced to beg for support while Russia slaughters my people?
TRUMP: We’re just saying, you need to be flexible.
ZELENSKYY: No, I need weapons, air defenses, security guarantees—not another fake deal where Ukraine loses everything.
VANCE: Well, this isn’t Ukraine’s war alone. It’s costing Americans billions.
ZELENSKYY: And what happens when Russia wins and moves west? Do you think stopping them gets cheaper later?
TRUMP: I don’t like endless wars.
ZELENSKYY: Endless? This war only drags on because Russia refuses to stop. Not because Ukraine won’t fight.
TRUMP: Well, we have to look at America’s interests.
ZELENSKYY: America’s interests? You let Putin win, you destroy NATO, you embolden China, you weaken America’s alliances. That’s not putting America first. That’s handing it over
Why do you keep asking these kinds of questions when you know the answer but are unwilling to say publicly. Just like your OP that said "you've never seen such a thing" instead of describing what happened.Z mentioned that he needs US support so as to not drive a wedge with European allies.
He was willing to work with Trump but Vance got his feathers ruffled and everything ended poorly for now.
Why Vance was even speaking is odd. Most VPs never say much during these kinds of meetings.
Why Vance was even speaking is odd. Most VPs never say much during these kinds of meetings.
The US would face epic consequences for such actions. And Trump woudnt be allowed to land in any country that was part of the ICC.US-backed regime change incoming?
Epic consequences from whom?The US would face epic consequences for such actions. And Trump woudnt be allowed to land in any country that was part of the ICC.
Economically from the rest of the world minus the authoritarian nations.Epic consequences from whom?
US-backed regime change incoming?
That's an odd position to take when their making a deal about minerals for security guarantees! Did he want Zelensky to just go "Yeah just take the minerals, no obligations!"?The South Carolina senator advised Zelensky not to press for U.S. security guarantees during the Oval Office meeting with Trump.