Discussion Trump and Zelensky in face to face argument

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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,163
16,381
136
Yea it feels like it. Wonder what Zelensky got for playing the part?

He showed Europe just how little the US will support him and hopefully Europe will get the message and step up their efforts.

The next question is; if Europe backs Ukraine enough for them to really turn the screws on Russia, does Trump lend his support to Russia? Seems like a ridiculous question but with republicans fully behind him I don’t think it’s far fetched.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
37,887
30,559
136

eelw

Lifer
Dec 4, 1999
10,147
5,250
136
He showed Europe just how little the US will support him and hopefully Europe will get the message and step up their efforts.

The next question is; if Europe backs Ukraine enough for them to really turn the screws on Russia, does Trump lend his support to Russia? Seems like a ridiculous question but with republicans fully behind him I don’t think it’s far fetched.
Yup turning his back to allies. Not long before fully embracing the dictators he looks up to. But will Vance grow a spine to 25A him?
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
14,064
9,825
136
Yup turning his back to allies. Not long before fully embracing the dictators he looks up to. But will Vance grow a spine to 25A him?

I think if he actively tries to help Russia.. Europe will put sanctions on American companies who might be able to rein him in more than any congress.. since money talks and the Europeans haven't used their economic might yet. like China has!

In the mean time the EU is going to have a pick a bully who isn't afraid to slap him in public unlike Ursula von der Leyen.
 
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GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,809
8,871
136
Obviously he forgot the golden rule...don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

-Wait, Trump forgot not to take Ukrainians killing the shit out of our geopolitical enemy for granted or... What are you trying to imply?

Oh, that Trump refuses to recognize that we've crushed the second largest army in the world with 1/8th of our annual defense budget with 0 American casualties?

Man why do some people have such a hard time speaking plain?
 
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VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,381
9,214
136
One thing about Trump that was just reinforced with that meeting .... Trump is the world’s worst negotiator and most/all the successful negotiations in his career were done by underlings who bought him in at the last minute and even then, his advisors were white-knuckling it during the entire closing because they were afraid he’d open his mouth and sink the deal.

There are a couple reasons why he’s the world’s worst negotiator.

1. He can’t accept that a successful negotiation ends in a win/win where both sides walk away happy ... negotiations are frequently the beginning of a partnership of some kind, and good deals make for good partners. But this just isn’t in Trump’s nature, because he’s a mean-spirited man that isn’t going to be happy unless the other side is unhappy/loses or gets the short end of the stick. He's addicted to the grift.

2. He has a total disinterest for information, with the narrow exception of information that glorifies Trump. And negotiation is about information, the goal is to be better informed than the person on the other side of the table. Better information results in better deals, and Trump has a disdain/disinterest for knowledge.

Seriously, worst deal maker ever. And running government is not like running a business because the government never gets to really walk away.
 

StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,934
1,235
126
A dark day for America that's for sure. A complete shill of a president that has sold out America to dictators and billionaires. A president that has sold out an ally in the most cowardly way I can think of.

I had hoped this could be the event that turns some of GOP against him, but it seems his little treasonous toadies still have their noses so far up Trumps butt they can probably smell his black heart.

Repugnant to the extreme.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,381
9,214
136
Felt like everything from Trump pointing his finger at Vance was scripted.

It was televised because they wanted Zelensky to praise Trump and kiss his ass, and if not, play the big tough guy bullies which is what transpired. Trump wanted either televised. That is why Vance and the cameras were there in the first place. Trump usually does one on ones with world leaders. An opportunity for Trump to posture in front of the cameras. Trump and Russia have been through so much together. It's easy to understand how Trump could lose money running a casino.

If TrumpsUSA were serious about long term peace, they would have acknowledged that Putin has broken ceasefires before and offered genuine security guarantees to Ukraine and Europe. Instead, they coordinated this shakedown.

Zelensky had to know Trump’s position. He got sucked in a little taking the bait. Trump wanted Zelensky to kiss Trump’s feet and repeat over and over again how grateful he that he is sitting next to his majesty. once he saw how that meeting was set up, he would have been better off not having a meeting at all. But, all and all he kept his cool and fought back.

Zelensky had to know exactly what was going to happen: that any deal that Trump would offer would be hugely advantageous to the U.S. and Russia, and disadvantageous to Ukraine. Not offered in honesty and Trumps history on reneging on deal after deal.

Knowing all that, Zelensky very likely realizes that the only thing he can now count on for the U.S. is in being an ally/stooge for Putin. He may have gone through with the meeting, in an effort to publicly show the world just how much of a biased asshole and ignoramus Trump is
 
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Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
14,064
9,825
136
It was televised because they wanted Zelensky to praise Trump and kiss his ass, and if not, play the big tough guy bullies which is what transpired. Trump wanted either televised. That is why Vance and the cameras were there in the first place. Trump usually does one on ones with world leaders. An opportunity for Trump to posture in front of the cameras. Trump and Russia have been through so much together. It's easy to understand how Trump could lose money running a casino.

If TrumpsUSA were serious about long term peace, they would have acknowledged that Putin has broken ceasefires before and offered genuine security guarantees to Ukraine and Europe. Instead, they coordinated this shakedown.

Zelensky had to know Trump’s position. He got sucked in a little taking the bait. Trump wanted Zelensky to kiss Trump’s feet and repeat over and over again how grateful he that he is sitting next to his majesty. once he saw how that meeting was set up, he would have been better off not having a meeting at all. But, all and all he kept his cool and fought back.

Zelensky had to know exactly what was going to happen: that any deal that Trump would offer would be hugely advantageous to the U.S. and Russia, and disadvantageous to Ukraine. Not offered in honesty and Trumps history on reneging on deal after deal.

Knowing all that, Zelensky very likely realizes that the only thing he can now count on for the U.S. is in being an ally/stooge for Putin. He may have gone through with the meeting, in an effort to publicly show the world just how much of a biased asshole and ignoramus Trump is

The part that worries me is a considerable part of Germany wants to ally with Russia and get their gas turned on again. But we've just had elections so we may have a few years before it actually happens.

Is that long enough for Europe to get its act together?
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,424
7,943
136
In the meanwhile, here's good 'ol reliable Trump suckup Lindsey doing his usual knob polishing job on Trump. I keep wondering how he can be such a lowdown slimy sycophant for Trump and live with himself being that way.

 
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VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,381
9,214
136
Sad to watch an unfit American President having an emotional meltdown and Vance groveling. A man-child in the White House and Elon junior's boogers on the Resolute Desk.

Zelensky did a brief, odd thumbs up after the joint tantrums. Is it possible he knew he was being set up and played them both. He got them to lose their cool and their masks of influence.

Imagine Roosevelt telling Churchill "you are showing us disrespect" instead of signing the Lend-Lease Bill. What a sad state of affairs in American diplomacy and influence.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,944
6,579
126
I was doing well ignoring everything Donald Trump to the disgust of those around me who insist and did so again today, pleading that I share in their misery which I did. But, after explaining that getting themselves worked into a lather and wanting me to do the same and telling them politely I'm having fun playing a game, that there's nothing to be achieved by allowing the idiot to make you sick, I excused myself from listening.

I just recalled a story about a boy at a train station that took to running around knocking off people's hats which he also did to Mulla Nasrudin. Others at the station admonished him for letting the boy so badly misbehave and wanted him to intervene. But he told them things weren't working out like that. Then along came a soldier whose hat the boy also knocked off, whereupon the soldier shot him.
 
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trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,424
7,943
136
It was televised because they wanted Zelensky to praise Trump and kiss his ass, and if not, play the big tough guy bullies which is what transpired. Trump wanted either televised. That is why Vance and the cameras were there in the first place. Trump usually does one on ones with world leaders. An opportunity for Trump to posture in front of the cameras. Trump and Russia have been through so much together. It's easy to understand how Trump could lose money running a casino.

If TrumpsUSA were serious about long term peace, they would have acknowledged that Putin has broken ceasefires before and offered genuine security guarantees to Ukraine and Europe. Instead, they coordinated this shakedown.

Zelensky had to know Trump’s position. He got sucked in a little taking the bait. Trump wanted Zelensky to kiss Trump’s feet and repeat over and over again how grateful he that he is sitting next to his majesty. once he saw how that meeting was set up, he would have been better off not having a meeting at all. But, all and all he kept his cool and fought back.

Zelensky had to know exactly what was going to happen: that any deal that Trump would offer would be hugely advantageous to the U.S. and Russia, and disadvantageous to Ukraine. Not offered in honesty and Trumps history on reneging on deal after deal.

Knowing all that, Zelensky very likely realizes that the only thing he can now count on for the U.S. is in being an ally/stooge for Putin. He may have gone through with the meeting, in an effort to publicly show the world just how much of a biased asshole and ignoramus Trump is

Zelenskyy certainly showed the whole world that Trump is Putin's skank bitch whore (apologies to all the skank bitch male whores out there for insulting you that way), calling for a peace deal that actually meant Ukraine capitulating to all of Putin's demands. The world saw how Trump and Vance tried to humiliate Zelenskyy, how they set him up for a verbal lashing, how obvious it was that the two top leaders of our nation were verbally sucker punching him, trying to humiliate him, taunting him to lose his cool. Imagine that; our two top leaders of the nation ganging up on a supposed ally of ours, or what used to be an ally of ours, bullying that war-torn nation into agreeing with their tormentor's demands.

It was to me the most embarrassing and shameful display of American arrogance, bullying a disadvantaged weaker nation into complying with demands made by Putin who was on his way toward losing the war he started had it not been for "Trump the Peacemaker" coming to his rescue while wanting to appear to be coming to the rescue of the USA's "hapless badly mismanaged ally".

On a personal level, Trump made me feel ashamed for being an American.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,944
6,579
126
In the meanwhile, here's good 'ol reliable Trump suckup Lindsey doing his usual knob polishing job on Trump. I keep wondering how he can be such a lowdown slimy sycophant for Trump and live with himself being that way.

Surfaced to disgorge some worm casings.
 
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DZero

Senior member
Jun 20, 2024
780
292
96
Was explaining MAGA Nazis, but you can drop the label for the other two.
Predators have spheres of influence.
  • China will take Asia.
  • Russia will take Europe.
  • US will take North and South America.
It is a world where the strong devour the weak.
Not really... Russia and US are caucasic and hates Chinese in fact, so no...
It will be a WWIII in which:
- One side have USA, Russia, Argentina, Hungary, Serbia, Israel, North Korea, Saudi Arab and Iran
- Other side we have the rest.

If nukes are used day one, is a mutual destruction. Depends on how much bunkers people built.
If not, definately is Cold War 2.0 and then WWIII.
 

DZero

Senior member
Jun 20, 2024
780
292
96
He showed Europe just how little the US will support him and hopefully Europe will get the message and step up their efforts.

The next question is; if Europe backs Ukraine enough for them to really turn the screws on Russia, does Trump lend his support to Russia? Seems like a ridiculous question but with republicans fully behind him I don’t think it’s far fetched.
He will definately do.
Republicans are already screwed. Even if they wants to get rid of Trump, is too late. Trump already destroyed democracy. He has a lot of MAGA idiots with military type weapons.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
8,465
7,112
136
Wow. Never seen such a thing.


Edit...rewind to minus 18 mins
Seriously how can you act surprised? This is always how this meeting was going to go with a nazi who literally said Zelenskyy started the war. By invading his own nation I guess?
 
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