Question USB-C slows down but only after time

mikeymikec · Dec 12, 2024

Despite what I said about the 870 EVO, I've got a customer's high end laptop here transferring to a spare 870 EVO 250GB drive and I'm seeing write speeds for large files between 80-130MB/sec via USB 3.0. The laptop's own SSD is at 7% utilisation. The 870 EVO was quick-formatted immediately before the transfer.

I'm a bit surprised given that I also have a mSATA enclosure containing a 256GB SSD that I picked out of a broken customer's laptop which I often see handling far higher sustained rates than that.

YuliApp · Dec 12, 2024

With laptops I was never really successful getting a performance I needed in any direction. But kind of makes sense. My current PC trips 2000W UPS time to time while my previous laptop was running 2h on small battery. But would definitely expect more from it.

mikeymikec · Dec 12, 2024

With that mSATA drive I'm often doing transfers from laptops (I use the drive to help migrate data from old PCs to new ones), so while it could be something odd with *this* laptop, I don't often see poor USB performance from laptops.

I'm tempted to run this backup again onto a spare Samsung PRO MLC SSD and see if there's much of a difference.

YuliApp · Dec 12, 2024

more research needed
i honestly never had a good performance experience from USB on laptop but I never really had an high end laptop (well after USB 3 became a thing). I think I will never stop being old school girl needing self built real PC.

Tech Junky · Dec 12, 2024

YuliApp said:
laptops

They've come a long way. I have one that has dual M2 sockets and hits ~2GB/s internally which isn't bad but isn't to spec of the drives either. I suspect it's a bus limitation since it hits 3GB/s over TB externally.

mikeymikec said:
mSATA

I replaced the spinner in my car with one just due to age. I figured it was a good preventative option since it seems just about everything runs through the system. It was a cheap thing to do even with the PATA adapter costing more than the drive still ~$50 total. The painful part was cloning the drive since it uses some odd QNX file table and I was hoping to expand one of the partitions for more storage but it was a real PITA and just got a same for same drive instead.

YuliApp said:
high end laptop

Clevo Barebone Laptop Series - R&J Technology, Clevo Barebone Notebook kits, Laptop and desktop system builder

your Memory hard drives build your laptop based this Clevo Barebone Series select from options provided build

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Higher end parts w/o the prices. I've had a couple of them so far and they work well. Easy to upgrade things as nothing is soldered like the other options on the market. The current one I took for $1300 and upgraded the panel to 4K/120 and dual M2 drives and WIFI 7 for a total under $2K. 4K laptops typically go for at least twice as much for some reason when the panel cost me $300 and 15 minutes to swap. That's some big markup they're asking for.

mikeymikec · Dec 12, 2024

YuliApp said:
more research needed
i honestly never had a good performance experience from USB on laptop but I never really had an high end laptop (well after USB 3 became a thing). I think I will never stop being old school girl needing self built real PC.

I'm not talking about high-end laptops most of the time, they could be Ivy-era i3 laptops with SSDs, for example.

At the end of such a transfer I often see figures (wrt the mSATA drive in a USB enclosure) of about 16000MB/min (267MB/sec). The transfer to the 870 EVO just completed at an average of 83MB/sec.

YuliApp · Dec 12, 2024

Tech Junky said:
They've come a long way. I have one that has dual M2 sockets and hits ~2GB/s internally which isn't bad but isn't to spec of the drives either. I suspect it's a bus limitation since it hits 3GB/s over TB externally.

I replaced the spinner in my car with one just due to age. I figured it was a good preventative option since it seems just about everything runs through the system. It was a cheap thing to do even with the PATA adapter costing more than the drive still ~$50 total. The painful part was cloning the drive since it uses some odd QNX file table and I was hoping to expand one of the partitions for more storage but it was a real PITA and just got a same for same drive instead.

Clevo Barebone Laptop Series - R&J Technology, Clevo Barebone Notebook kits, Laptop and desktop system builder

your Memory hard drives build your laptop based this Clevo Barebone Series select from options provided build

rjtech.com

Higher end parts w/o the prices. I've had a couple of them so far and they work well. Easy to upgrade things as nothing is soldered like the other options on the market. The current one I took for $1300 and upgraded the panel to 4K/120 and dual M2 drives and WIFI 7 for a total under $2K. 4K laptops typically go for at least twice as much for some reason when the panel cost me $300 and 15 minutes to swap. That's some big markup they're asking for.

Thank you.
Looks really interesting but until I would get it to my side of the world, It would be obsolete probably. 🤣
I am stuck to a desktop for now, laptop just to check messages and social media when on the road. But even that i rather remote desktop to a real PC

YuliApp · Mar 1, 2025

Wanted to add a little followup. Now I discovered that SSDs in software RAID (dynamic disk) are not maintained properly, as in TRIM etc. It got so bad that PC started severely lock up and performance of one of the disks dropped to about 7kB/s. So a bit heads up, do not use dynamic disk with SSD. I didn't know, used it all the time.

mikeymikec · Mar 1, 2025

YuliApp said:
Wanted to add a little followup. Now I discovered that SSDs in software RAID (dynamic disk) are not maintained properly, as in TRIM etc. It got so bad that PC started severely lock up and performance of one of the disks dropped to about 7kB/s. So a bit heads up, do not use dynamic disk with SSD. I didn't know, used it all the time.

Can you give a bit more information such as drives, configuration, role of PC, does it run 24/7, etc?

The drives should still be doing garbage collection (an internal maintenance operation that all SSDs do). I've got a server I built in 2013-ish that gets light use with an OS that isn't TRIM capable and the responsiveness/throughput has not dropped significantly.

I've only recently built a couple of PCs for customers with SSDs in Windows RAID 1 configuration (Samsung 980/990 PRO drives) so it will be some time before I potentially see a performance drop-off in those settings.

YuliApp · Mar 1, 2025

I buy mostly Samsungs, but move large amount of data. Magician software refuses to even display information about drive which is in software raid. Not sure if it does internal maintenance but I am now either way phasing away the use of software raid. Big problem for me as on servers I have sadly no real alternative.

The recent problem however happened on drive which is two 2TB Transcend M2s. The drives are fine now, copying the data again there after splitting it into separate drives and mounted them to subfolders instead.

PC is a workstation, is not 24/7 on, and does move a lot of data, as in 1TB of new data in typical week. I archive the old data, and put new data in so is kind of always 70-80% full FIFO.

mikeymikec · Mar 1, 2025

YuliApp said:
I buy mostly Samsungs, but move large amount of data. Magician software refuses to even display information about drive which is in software raid. Not sure if it does internal maintenance but I am now either way phasing away the use of software raid. Big problem for me as on servers I have sadly no real alternative.

The recent problem however happened on drive which is two 2TB Transcend M2s. The drives are fine now, copying the data again there after splitting it into separate drives and mounted them to subfolders instead.

PC is a workstation, is not 24/7 on, and does move a lot of data, as in 1TB of new data in typical week. I archive the old data, and put new data in so is kind of always 70-80% full FIFO.

Maybe if you ran it 24/7 then it would have time to do the significant amount of garbage collection that can be expected from writing >1TB data per week?

YuliApp · Mar 1, 2025

mikeymikec said:
Maybe if you ran it 24/7 then it would have time to do the significant amount of garbage collection that can be expected from writing >1TB data per week?

that kind of makes sense. But still it runs every day all time i am awake, so morning till evening and more than half of the time idling. Have to admit I know nothing about the trimming, knew it was issue when SSDs started many years ago, but was considering non-issue by now.

sdifox · Mar 1, 2025

Maybe look into unraid

sdifox · Mar 1, 2025

YuliApp said:
Thank you.
Looks really interesting but until I would get it to my side of the world, It would be obsolete probably. 🤣
I am stuck to a desktop for now, laptop just to check messages and social media when on the road. But even that i rather remote desktop to a real PC

Clevo is definitely available in EU.

As to trim, you can manually start it, but only if it is in ZFS.
As to your workload, I think it makes far more sense to spread the source files to multiple drives, you get better throughput since they can be on different channels.

YuliApp · Mar 1, 2025

sdifox said:
Maybe look into unraid

Sadly windows bound. On server and desktop

YuliApp · Mar 1, 2025

sdifox said:
Clevo is definitely available in EU.

might be but i would not get loaded into it what i need to. 64GB ram, X SSDs, 4080, etc. For my travel needs my Spin is good enough. Definitely would try to snatch something like that on next upgrade cycle but i got used to touch screen way too much.

sdifox · Mar 1, 2025

YuliApp said:
Sadly windows bound. On server and desktop

Why? Building a NAS is exactly what you need. Keep your windows serverbutbuild a nas box.

Or you can look into MS Storage Space

Storage Spaces overview

Learn about Storage Spaces in Windows and Windows Server and how it can help you take care of your data and the four main ways to use Storage Spaces.

learn.microsoft.com

And used infiniband 40gbps is not all that expensive

YuliApp · Mar 1, 2025

sdifox said:
Why? Building a NAS is exactly what you need.

I have now 2.5GBit network between server and workstation and it is still too slow. So I need my data to have on my PC locally. as for backup I do not care much about the speed. On my server i have first line of backup, rest is colocated and cloud and external USB drives. So my workstation has more online storage then my local server.
The server doubles as mail, web, info, entertainment screen as on my workstation I do not even use webbrowser and have just essential work tools installed. There i do not even need redundancy as it is just all temporary data doubled on various places anyway. I used raid only to have single drive instead spreading data on multiple small ones.

I know Linux well, have few small servers, but am Windows girl since a long time (bizspark support to my startup to be exact). Coding, photo and video software, server, everything is tied to MS platform, so I guess I am stuck. Not enough angry to even attempt to switch. Yet. They sure try to alienate professional users a lot.

sdifox · Mar 1, 2025

YuliApp said:
I have now 2.5GBit network between server and workstation and it is still too slow. So I need my data to have on my PC locally. as for backup I do not care much about the speed. On my server i have first line of backup, rest is colocated and cloud and external USB drives. So my workstation has more online storage then my local server.
The server doubles as mail, web, info, entertainment screen as on my workstation I do not even use webbrowser and have just essential work tools installed. There i do not even need redundancy as it is just all temporary data doubled on various places anyway. I used raid only to have single drive instead spreading data on multiple small ones.

I know Linux well, have few small servers, but am Windows girl since a long time (bizspark support to my startup to be exact). Coding, photo and video software, server, everything is tied to MS platform, so I guess I am stuck. Not enough angry to even attempt to switch. Yet. They sure try to alienate professional users a lot.

Do you have pcie slot and channels to spare? Maybe get this

5 Best M.2 PCIe Adapters (For Mounting and Speeding Up Your M.2 NVMe SSDs)

M.2 PCIe Adapters let you mount your M.2 NVMe Drives onto a PCIe-Slot. Benefits include Performance increases and more extension options. Our Guide.

www.cgdirector.com

https://www.highpoint-tech.com/ra-pc-category

YuliApp · Mar 1, 2025

thank you, i will check it out, I have one PCIe x16 free.

sdifox · Mar 1, 2025

YuliApp said:
thank you, i will check it out, I have one PCIe x16 free.

And have enough pcie lanes.

YuliApp · Mar 1, 2025

sdifox said:
And have enough pcie lanes.

this i have to check, i have 14700KF and fairly good mainboard so am optimistic

sdifox · Mar 1, 2025

YuliApp said:
this i have to check, i have 14700KF and fairly good mainboard so am optimistic

You got 20 pcie5 lanes so will have to be 2 8x mode.

YuliApp · Mar 1, 2025

ah so, no idea if i need x16 for my graphic card. i do not game on the PC is used only to accelerate the software. would have to test it probably. sounds more like idea for next build if until then the large SSDs will not drop in price...

sdifox · Mar 1, 2025

YuliApp said:
ah so, no idea if i need x16 for my graphic card. i do not game on the PC is used only to accelerate the software. would have to test it probably. sounds more like idea for next build if until then the large SSDs will not drop in price...

Memory bandwidth is important for video processing, however going from x16 to x8 is around 3% impact on video editing.

Next build should be AMD LoL.

Question USB-C slows down but only after time

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