Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

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aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
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I don't understand where the issue is, AMD ships every Threadripper CPU with a dedicated tool, and if you somehow throw it away before installing CPU, 3 seconds search on internet turns out correct torque spec. which is 1.5Nm. Use any torque wrench you want and set it to 1.5Nm.

A lot of the threadrippers are sold second hand as a combo, or used at a heavy discount.
The original seller does not include a tool sometimes. If you buy any used threadripper im sure you will not get the tool 100%. He got his as a combo used, and wanted to check for pin damage on the motherboard like i always taught him. He was not aware of the rules of threadripper and the proper installation of one, thinking they were like his many intel CPU's he has had before.

ThreadRipper and EPYC are the only 2 cpu's i know which require a special torque because the cpu is just so big. Its a massive colossal die, and not many people realize memory errors can happen from a improperly mounted cpu.

Lastly i have a Torque screw driver. A digital one and a spring one. They were not cheap.
Not many people i can think of who even participated in this thread would have those specialized torque drivers, unless were talking about power tool, and you can't really set or dial those down like the drivers i have that were expensive.

I use them more for my water blocks to make sure they are all properly torqued and not over torqued so the compression around the Oring is perfect. If i wasn't such a hardcore water cooling fanatic, i probably would of never bought one.
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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I've built a bunch of AM4/AM5 systems using many different coolers. The AMD mounting system is totally fine. It Older AM3 heatsinks that use the clip-on brackets will also be able to use the AM4/5 stock plastic tabs.
This works the other way too. I've used the Wraith Prism on 13 year old boards. Which is why the those are preinstalled i.e. millions of retail Zen CPUs sold with the Prism included.
The plastic tabs offer additional cooler compatibility so I don't see how this is a bad thing.
Right on
The plastic push in system that intel uses for it's stock coolers is absolutely terrible in comparison.
Pure garbage. Another way to cheap out i.e. no backplate.
I've seen those stupid things pop out of the hole and stop making contact with the IHS on several occasions when servicing systems.
I've bought Intel combos here in the for sale forum where one or more of the plastic pins were worn out making the cooler useless. Not that I'd use that POS anyways. AMD cheaping out by using the stealth on 8 cores is a douche move too.

My only real complaint with AMD stock coolers is the tim. It is responsible for so many less savvy owners pulling the CPU out with the cooler. You have to heat it up and twist back and forth sometimes before pulling up. AM5 solved that one.
 

StefanR5R

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2016
6,320
9,717
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About Threadripper and EPYC, mounting the CPU and mounting coolers:
  • Difficult? Wrong. Just different, compared to the tiny sockets.
  • Easy, in fact. IME very very painless to do. I was pleased about the process.
    And you know what? This is not coincidental.
    "Necessity is the mother of invention."
    They made the mechanism so that folks can assemble racks and racks full of servers quickly yet correctly. Time is money.
  • And lastly, this is not AMD specific. A few other vendors have very large LGA sockets too. (Personally, I have only dealt with AMD's yet myself, though.)
PS: Sometimes it does help to read the fine manual. :-)
 

Philste

Senior member
Oct 13, 2023
292
472
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First Test of Krackan Point: (German Notebookcheck).

https://www.notebookcheck.com/Asus-...itaets-Boost-oder-nur-Marketing.960264.0.html

Btw, Krackan Point Devices basically went available he same day Strix Halo dropped, at least in Germany. Now we see why there were no Reviews.

CPU Performance in MT tied to Phoenix/Hawk Point at Best, in Geekbench it falls back to Lunar Lake lvl. ST only 12% uplift over Hawk.

Graphics is just complete Destruction, 2K flat Timespy, worse than 760M in Ryzen 5 Phoenix Devices, getting stomped by 2 Times with every other x86 APU released since Computex 2024.

Battery life worse than Meteor Lake NBC took to compare. Now we know why they dropped it silently without any reviews.
 

branch_suggestion

Senior member
Aug 4, 2023
610
1,322
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First Test of Krackan Point: (German Notebookcheck).

https://www.notebookcheck.com/Asus-...itaets-Boost-oder-nur-Marketing.960264.0.html

Btw, Krackan Point Devices basically went available he same day Strix Halo dropped, at least in Germany. Now we see why there were no Reviews.

CPU Performance in MT tied to Phoenix/Hawk Point at Best, in Geekbench it falls back to Lunar Lake lvl. ST only 12% uplift over Hawk.

Graphics is just complete Destruction, 2K flat Timespy, worse than 760M in Ryzen 5 Phoenix Devices, getting stomped by 2 Times with every other x86 APU released since Computex 2024.

Battery life worse than Meteor Lake NBC took to compare. Now we know why they dropped it silently without any reviews.
It has the shiny NPU which means it is the cheapest part with the MS slush fund tech.
And yes, it means it sucks at everything else, go figure.
 
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Philste

Senior member
Oct 13, 2023
292
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It has the shiny NPU which means it is the cheapest part with the MS slush fund tech.
Not really, this one is 999€ for a basic cheapish Vivobook with most basic screen without SRGB and tiny 40Wh battery. You can get Snapdragon X Plus Devices for much less (not that I want one of them either).

I hate this NPU stuff so much, thx to MS we now get this abomination in <1k Devices which gets beaten by 2 year old 600 Buck Devices of the same manufacturer.
 

adroc_thurston

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2023
5,232
7,312
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First Test of Krackan Point: (German Notebookcheck).

https://www.notebookcheck.com/Asus-...itaets-Boost-oder-nur-Marketing.960264.0.html

Btw, Krackan Point Devices basically went available he same day Strix Halo dropped, at least in Germany. Now we see why there were no Reviews.

CPU Performance in MT tied to Phoenix/Hawk Point at Best, in Geekbench it falls back to Lunar Lake lvl. ST only 12% uplift over Hawk.

Graphics is just complete Destruction, 2K flat Timespy, worse than 760M in Ryzen 5 Phoenix Devices, getting stomped by 2 Times with every other x86 APU released since Computex 2024.

Battery life worse than Meteor Lake NBC took to compare. Now we know why they dropped it silently without any reviews.
that's just a bad device.
 

Philste

Senior member
Oct 13, 2023
292
472
96
that's just a bad device.
Overall Yeah, its a cheap device that shoild be avoided, but in terms of APU stats? Maybe for battery Life, but the rest? It can run at least 40W sustained, judging by the sustained 70W device power draw in stress Test probably even more.

Overall it lands where I expected it, but that's the problem, I already expected bad things.
 

Philste

Senior member
Oct 13, 2023
292
472
96
that's far far far past the KRK falloff range.
It's a 20W part.
I know that, but AMD decided to make it the successor of all Ryzen 5 and 7 parts and leave Strix at Ryzen 9 only. It will be compared to 8845HS because at the end of the day AMD themselves named and positioned it that way (15-54W cTDP).
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,473
12,328
136
CPU Performance in MT tied to Phoenix/Hawk Point at Best, in Geekbench it falls back to Lunar Lake lvl. ST only 12% uplift over Hawk.

Actually +12% ST over Hawk Point isn't too bad. Kracken is meant to be cheap, not necessarily good. Hawk Point is currently AMD's answer to Intel's 10nm mobile spam, all Kracken has to do is be cheaper then Intel's Intel 3/4 mobile products and be functional (and readily-available).

Graphics is just complete Destruction

Let's be honest, nobody is gaming with this thing except out of curiosity or desperation.

Battery life worse than Meteor Lake NBC took to compare.
That's a little surprising, though that'll come down to specific configurations and battery size. Tale as old as time in the mobile sector. If you look at the power draw graphs, it looks like Kracken is using more power than the 8540U and that's a little concerning.
 
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Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,712
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MS_AT

Senior member
Jul 15, 2024
525
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CPU Performance in MT tied to Phoenix/Hawk Point at Best, in Geekbench it falls back to Lunar Lake lvl. ST only 12% uplift over Hawk.

Graphics is just complete Destruction, 2K flat Timespy, worse than 760M in Ryzen 5 Phoenix Devices, getting stomped by 2 Times with every other x86 APU released since Computex 2024.
Check MemBW, somebody figured out that soldering 5600MT/s would be a good idea... To make it even funnier, it's single channel (well dual channel in DDR5 terms, but Strix Point gets 4).
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,712
4,630
136
That's a little surprising, though that'll come down to specific configurations and battery size. Tale as old as time in the mobile sector. If you look at the power draw graphs, it looks like Kracken is using more power than the 8540U and that's a little concerning.

He say that this KRK laptop, wich has a 42Wh battery, has way lower endurance than the 99Wh equipped 155H comparison...

Beside it s soldered 16GB SC but there s a slot to add 16GB for the second channel.


 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,473
12,328
136
He say that this KRK laptop, wich has a 42Wh battery, has way lower endurance than the 99Wh equipped 155H comparison...

Okay there you go. Also it looks like the OEM set Kracken far above its normal TDP range.

Beside it s soldered 16GB SC but there s a slot to add 16GB for the second channel.
Kraken is a low cost option, so it'll probably get more than a few single-channel configs.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,712
4,630
136
Okay there you go. Also it looks like the OEM set Kracken far above its normal TDP range.


Kraken is a low cost option, so it'll probably get more than a few single-channel configs.

This one is dual channel, you just have to add a 16GB sodimm to get to 32GB, as for power it s configurable down to 27W.
 

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Philste

Senior member
Oct 13, 2023
292
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He say that this KRK laptop, wich has a 42Wh battery, has way lower endurance than the 99Wh equipped 155H comparison...
Because the 99Wh one is the only device in NBCs Comparison:
There you go, also 125U with 512ALU iGPU might be an even better comparison for Krackan, but it also loses to Hawk Point with battery size normalized. And the 155H one might have a 140% bigger battery, but look at the results, 140% to 219% longer runtime. Krackan is the worst at least for this test.
Okay there you go. Also it looks like the OEM set Kracken far above its normal TDP range.
How does the TDP matter in Krackans conclusion? Ok, you shouldn't take efficiency measurements from this device, but for general performance it's fine, because the absolute performance doesn't get worse with a 40W limit eben if it's MT sweetspot is way below that. Ok, single channel is an Issue, but more on that later.

Also we live in a time where even Ultrathins like Zenbook S16 run at 28W sustained. Only OEM that i really know that still runs below 20W regularly is Lenovo in the cheaper Thinkpads.

Krackans "normal TDP Range" is the same as Strix' and every predecessors before, namely 15-54W with the option to basically going open end. Is that a bad decision? Yes, but at the end AMD still took it.
Kraken is a low cost option, so it'll probably get more than a few single-channel configs.
That's the main Problem: It isn't low cost. I just looked at Zenbook 14 Configs before posting this because it has Hawk Point, Krackan and Intel all in the same Chassis.

Krackan is a 1:1 replacement for Phoenix/Hawk Point from a price perspective. That Cheapo Vivobook 16 NBC tested costs 1k bucks and you get Single Channel RAM, crazy cheap display with bad colours and brightness and a Keyboard without backlight.

I'm afraid to say it, but a Zenbook 14 with Ultra 7 255H and 3K/120Hz Windows 11 Pro is only 200€ more than the same device with AI 350 and FHD/60Hz Windows 11 Home. It's literally 1399€ vs 1599€ while Hawk Point also costed 1399€ when released a year ago.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,473
12,328
136
How does the TDP matter in Krackans conclusion?

I was more referring to the Cyberpunk: 2077 comparison, where Kraken is burning more power than the 8540u. By a lot. It's not supposed to be configured to run at those power levels. It can be, but it's really supposed to be a ~20W TDP SoC.

Krackan is a 1:1 replacement for Phoenix/Hawk Point from a price perspective.

Hawk Point is pretty ubiquitous and cheap by now. If Kraken can stay at that price level then it should find itself in plenty of laptops in the $500-$1000 range.

That Cheapo Vivobook 16 NBC tested costs 1k bucks and you get Single Channel RAM, crazy cheap display with bad colours and brightness and a Keyboard without backlight.

It shouldn't be a $1k laptop. Something is definitely off there.
 

Philste

Senior member
Oct 13, 2023
292
472
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Hawk Point is pretty ubiquitous and cheap by now. If Kraken can stay at that price level then it should find itself in plenty of laptops in the $500-$1000 range.
What I meant is that Krackans MSRP is the same as Hawk Points MSRP when it was new, has nothing to do with what Hawk costs now. It's a 1:1 price tier replacement, nothing more, nothing less.

Like I wrote, in Zenbook 14 configs you can see that it is same price as Hawk Point and barely cheaper than ARL-H. Personally I would even say ARL-H is the better option in price/perf.
 
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