Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,425
7,943
136
I imagine this scenario...
Trump leaves everyone... then the nordics and Germany gets nukes by themselves.

Trump is getting his wish that the other NATO members pay more for the defense of the alliance but it's not the way nor the results he was looking for. Instead of making NATO weaker just like Putin wants him to, NATO is more unified and getting stronger than ever due to Trump's betrayal.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
39,703
9,522
136
I imagine this scenario...
Trump leaves everyone... then the nordics and Germany gets nukes by themselves.
There are nukes and there are NUKES. Nagasaki and Hiroshima were atom bombs. Yes, they are devastating and make areas radioactive and spread radioactivity via fallout and winds. But bigtime NUKES are hydrogen bombs that can reach at least 20 megatons of TNT intensity.

Hydrogen bombs of more than 50 megatons have been detonated, but the explosive power of the weapons mounted on strategic missiles usually ranges from 100 kilotons to 1.5 megatons.Jan 17, 2025

Part of the equation is delivery, so planes or missiles.

Development requires high tech including fissionable material, processing via centrifuges, bomb development, deployment systems development, testing, dispersion often requiring alliances or naval systems support.

It's been a long time since the hydrogen bomb was developed and tested, around 1952. What was a big deal then isn't as big a deal now.

I hear (a lot of in here) that Russia's nuclear arsenal is likely not well maintained at all because of the relative poverty of the nation and depletion of their economic strength since the 3 day war began 3 years ago, also the loss of manpower and the fleeing of intelligentsia and a lot of the populace that has the resources and foresight.

There's a natural deterrence to using nuclear weapons. Any nation who does use a bomb of the strength of those dropped on Japan in 1945 (or greater, of course) is going to become an instant pariah on the world stage in such a way they won't recover for generations.
 
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misuspita

Senior member
Jul 15, 2006
660
778
136
Shieeez, Norway can put up by itself 100 billion if they would truly want and not really feel the pinch.

Omg, if this ETO really gets off the ground until Trump goes, it might even be the best outcome. Thanks, turd!
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
50,906
42,711
136
Reactions: RnR_au and Brovane

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
50,906
42,711
136
Thinking a bit about what to spend money on for Ukraine air power is going to be a very important line item. They should purchase the 30 surplus F-16s and 20 Mirage 2000-5Fs from Greece. Contract with Turkey to upgrade the Ukrainian F-16 fleet (most importantly with their native AESA radars). They have more frames than they have pilots for now so there would not be any operational impact.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
12,802
3,591
136
More good news. Seems Russian air defense is tired...
Really, F-16s are making a difference?
If only UA had gotten them much sooner. 😭


There are nukes and there are NUKES. Nagasaki and Hiroshima were atom bombs. Yes, they are devastating and make areas radioactive and spread radioactivity via fallout and winds. But bigtime NUKES are hydrogen bombs that can reach at least 20 megatons of TNT intensity.
There are both tactical and strategic nukes. IMO strategic nukes only have deterrence value. Which is why nuclear non-proliferation has been so critical over the years. The world will be in a lot worse place if more countries join the nuclear weapons club. It would take just one madman to destroy the delicate balance we have now with fewer than a dozen nations with nuclear weapons.
 
Reactions: Muse

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
50,906
42,711
136
Really, F-16s are making a difference?
If only UA had gotten them much sooner. 😭

The delay was quite regrettable but I'm sure they are increasingly helpful as the Ukrainian air force gains experience with them. They are likely to have significantly better availability than their clapped out ex-soviet fleet and fly more sorties (why the Russians say they are "everywhere").
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,530
30,729
146
Memorandums don’t mean much in geopolitics, my guy. Treaties, on the other hand, are legally binding, that’s why there’s a T in NATO.


Too bad Ukrainian politicians didn’t get the memo, or maybe they’re just too stupid to know the difference.

BTW remind me again what was Obama’s response when Putin annexed Crimea? Oh yeah, nothing because memorandums mean nothing.

better get that energy out now, because you got 3k horny DPRK meat sacs on their way towards your brown hole right very soon.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
50,906
42,711
136
Apparently the Harpoon has been integrated on Ukraine's F-16s.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...integrated-on-u-s-air-force-f-16-in-new-test/

The integration required no modifications to the aircraft, opting instead for software changes that facilitated communication between the missile and aircraft, shortening the time needed for integration while significantly lowering costs.


Current F-16 operators with Harpoon capability include Ukraine, Turkey, Taiwan, Egypt, Oman, United Arab Emirates, South Korea, and Singapore.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,000
53,238
136
Really, F-16s are making a difference?
If only UA had gotten them much sooner. 😭



There are both tactical and strategic nukes. IMO strategic nukes only have deterrence value. Which is why nuclear non-proliferation has been so critical over the years. The world will be in a lot worse place if more countries join the nuclear weapons club. It would take just one madman to destroy the delicate balance we have now with fewer than a dozen nations with nuclear weapons.
I think people really overestimate how quickly F-16s could have been provided to Ukraine. For example all the training and maintenance manuals are in English and the instructors themselves speak English. (Or at least generally do not speak Ukrainian or Russian.) So every Ukrainian pilot that wanted to fly an F-16 needed to learn a completely new foreign language before they even started.

This isn’t to say there may not have been ways to speed the process up but it was never going to be fast.
 
Reactions: [DHT]Osiris

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
50,906
42,711
136
I think people really overestimate how quickly F-16s could have been provided to Ukraine. For example all the training and maintenance manuals are in English and the instructors themselves speak English. (Or at least generally do not speak Ukrainian or Russian.) So every Ukrainian pilot that wanted to fly an F-16 needed to learn a completely new foreign language before they even started.

This isn’t to say there may not have been ways to speed the process up but it was never going to be fast.

We could have shaved some time off (months at least) by starting language and technical training earlier than we did. Also by allowing contractors to work inside Ukraine sooner to help maintain their new fleet until they get more experience.
 

misuspita

Senior member
Jul 15, 2006
660
778
136
They should prepare their nuke powers to defeat Russia. Now is the time.
I don't think a country with the population map looking like this should warn anyone else about nuking cities. 2 strategic hidrogen bombs launched over 2 regions will wipe Russia completely

 
Reactions: [DHT]Osiris

misuspita

Senior member
Jul 15, 2006
660
778
136
We could have shaved some time off (months at least) by starting language and technical training earlier than we did. Also by allowing contractors to work inside Ukraine sooner to help maintain their new fleet until they get more experience.
I'm not sure, but I think every pilot is required to communicate in English?
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
50,906
42,711
136
I'm not sure, but I think every pilot is required to communicate in English?

In Ukraine's case most of their pilots did not speak English or much anyway. This was not a problem for their Air Force since it was pretty unlikely they'd be sending Mig-29s or whatever beyond their borders except to strike Russia.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
39,703
9,522
136
The president of the European Union, Ursula von der Leyen, emerged from a summit of European leaders in London on Sunday to call for a “surge in defense” by their countries. She said that the E.U. would present a plan to do that on Thursday. Europe, she said, will fortify Ukraine with economic and military aid, with a goal of turning the country into “a steel porcupine that is indigestible for potential invaders.”

NYTimes article, link paywall penetrating for 2 weeks, i.e. until Mar. 16, 2025:


 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
16,595
15,478
146
Really, F-16s are making a difference?
If only UA had gotten them much sooner. 😭
It's tough, f16s may have made no real difference any earlier than they got them, there's a ton of battlefield shaping required to utilize airframes effectively beyond deploying a few specialized armaments, just ask RU pilots (what's left of them anyhow). This depends a lot on what the battlefield looks like at any given time though, there's certain points where they could have been absolutely critical.
 
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