Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

DisEnchantment · Mar 23, 2022

With the GFX940 patches in full swing since first week of March, it is looking like MI300 is not far in the distant future!
Usually AMD takes around 3Qs to get the support in LLVM and amdgpu. Lately, since RDNA2 the window they push to add support for new devices is much reduced to prevent leaks.
But looking at the flurry of code in LLVM, it is a lot of commits. Maybe because US Govt is starting to prepare the SW environment for El Capitan (Maybe to avoid slow bring up situation like Frontier for example)

See here for the GFX940 specific commits

History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

The LLVM Project is a collection of modular and reusable compiler and toolchain technologies. - History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

github.com

Or Phoronix

More AMD "GFX940" Enablement Work Landing In LLVM - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

There is a lot more if you know whom to follow in LLVM review chains (before getting merged to github), but I am not going to link AMD employees.

I am starting to think MI300 will launch around the same time like Hopper probably only a couple of months later!
Although I believe Hopper had problems not having a host CPU capable of doing PCIe 5 in the very near future therefore it might have gotten pushed back a bit until SPR and Genoa arrives later in 2022.
If PVC slips again I believe MI300 could launch before it

This is nuts, MI100/200/300 cadence is impressive.

Previous thread on CDNA2 and RDNA3 here

Question - Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now. First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time! Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3...

forums.anandtech.com

gdansk · Mar 5, 2025

Keller_TT said:
The 9070 XT has been pushed beyond its intended scope for that last 3-4% to appear closer to 5070 Ti (and $50↑ price revision), and makes it look dull imo.

The 9070 Pulse and Hellhound are MSRP, near reference designs, and both are very similar in power draw. The Hellhound is cool and quiet too. They come in at 225W sustained, while the 9070 XT is 310W for the Pulse.
The perf gap is a median +13%, and the OC models net a further 2-3% I suppose, but gets into 7900 XTX power levels for worser results in raster.

This smells like Zen 4 frequency maxing. 65W 7700 vs 105W 7700X (97% v 100%). I would take a 97% 9070 XT for 265W.
But AMD have outright lied yet again, about +42% vs 7900 GRE.

View attachment 119001

I spend about 8 hours a day dual display at approximately ~Leerlauf and in this scenario Nvidia is 2.5x as power hungry? It's a valid reason for me not to buy Blackwell. Of course, I don't actually care. But somehow I feel like everyone can make bikesheds into reasons.

SolidQ · Mar 5, 2025

Cyber 2077 and Hogwart RT hit perfomance. for RDNA3 is big hit

Keller_TT · Mar 5, 2025

gdansk said:
To which numbers are you comparing?
I have checked a few sites and for the same games it is pretty similar...

The ones on AMD website. I think HUB also mentioned this, but since it is overall a good one, and NV has been terrible this gen, he didn't make it a big deal.

gdansk · Mar 5, 2025

Keller_TT said:
The ones on AMD website. I think HUB also mentioned this, but since it is overall a good one, and NV has been terrible this gen, he didn't make it a big deal.

HWUB has lower figures in many games than other reviews. They will retest, as usual. Then continue to insist (perhaps correctly) that their methodology is sound.

But they don't hide that they do not use standard benchmarks and AMD and Nvidia's figures are based on repeatable benchmarks where possible.

maddie · Mar 5, 2025

ToTTenTranz said:
Only 64MB of Infinity Cache. The chip was made for 1080p to 1440p, never 4K.

GDDR7 on N48 would've been nice for 4K with RT.
Or a bigger chip with more IF and/or more memory channels, of course.

Are those curves valid forever?

adroc_thurston · Mar 5, 2025

maddie said:
Are those curves valid forever?

Not really (RDNA4 changes MALL policies quite a lot). Still an ok proxy of things.

Keller_TT · Mar 5, 2025

gdansk said:
If you want a 275W 9070 XT you can probably get that with a slider in the drivers.
Usually neither AMD or Nvidia stop you from setting lower power limits.
And the sites which have tested the 9070 XT at a fixed frame rate as a proxy for equal work efficiency (TPU, CB) usually have it near the top of the charts.

Yup. That's what I was saying, I guess one could get 95% of the 350W models at not more than 270W with a standard Pulse/Prime using a bit of UV/power level tweaking.

SolidQ · Mar 5, 2025

Overdrive Path Tracing

moonbogg · Mar 5, 2025

adroc_thurston said:
DC parts are never wafer-limited.

That sounds interesting. So why aren't there more Blackwell gaming cards then? Also, what does DC stand for? Let me try to guess first:

Direct Customer
Die Cast
Direct Consumer
Dedicated Consumer
Die Constrained
Die Curated
Detailed Component
Direct Component
Directed Component
Dedicated Card
Discrete Card
Discrete Component
Discrete Customer
Discretely Curated

adroc_thurston · Mar 5, 2025

moonbogg said:
So why aren't there more Blackwell gaming cards then?

They had a (very obviously) troubled bringup with a very very late prod kickoff.
Same as RDNA3 really.

moonbogg · Mar 5, 2025

adroc_thurston said:
They had a (very obviously) troubled bringup with a very very late prod kickoff.
Same as RDNA3 really.

What does DC stand for?

Mopetar · Mar 5, 2025

adroc_thurston said:
uh, no.
AMD's not gonna build any leadership products.

If they thought they could win, they would. AMD played their own game and to their own advantages with Ryzen as well, and when they had an opportunity to pounce on Intel they took it. Some of that started by building mindshare with the OG Ryzen. Even if people didn't buy one, it got a lot of buzz and AMD built on that over successive generations.

moonbogg said:
The cards are fine, but no one is buying these if the 5070 and 5070ti are suddenly in stock at msrp.

I'd buy a 9070 XT over a 5070 Ti at MSRP. I don't give a toss about RT or frame generation, so it's purely a raster performance consideration. I'm not paying $150 more for an extra 5% performance and 4 GB less VRAM that may become an issue in the future.

Kronos1996 said:
Hardware Unboxed found it significantly worse than Blackwell.

What review did you watch? In the 18 game average the 9070 XT was 6% slower than the 5070 Ti in 1440p and only 1% slower at 4K.

I don't personally care about RT and neither card will run acceptable frame rates without using upscaling so even if I wanted an RT card I wouldn't consider the 5070 Ti.

Keller_TT · Mar 5, 2025

AMD have really gone to town with FSR4 though. Nice to see. The delay has been worth the wait if it has allowed FSR4 to be so impressive straight away. Could get a number of Ampere converts to Radeon I suppose.
I hope it's available with every title henceforth.

adroc_thurston · Mar 5, 2025

Mopetar said:
If they thought they could win, they would

Not really, no. A lot more things are involved in running a major program like that.

Mopetar said:
AMD played their own game and to their own advantages with Ryzen as well, and when they had an opportunity to pounce on Intel they took it. Some of that started by building mindshare with the OG Ryzen. Even if people didn't buy one, it got a lot of buzz and AMD built on that over successive generations.

it didn't give AMD any buzz.
16 cores in a client socket and a 64c Threadripper that had a bar chart long enough to barely fit onto 3 CES screens sure did tho.

moonbogg · Mar 5, 2025

Mopetar said:
I'd buy a 9070 XT over a 5070 Ti at MSRP. I don't give a toss about RT or frame generation, so it's purely a raster performance consideration. I'm not paying $150 more for an extra 5% performance and 4 GB less VRAM that may become an issue in the future.

Allow me to rephrase. 95%+ of the legions of young gamer humans strolling into Microcenter, Best Buy, or any other store are going to buy the 5070 if it's the same price as the 9070, and if they are already paying over $600 then they are just getting the 5070Ti for $150 more. Also, the 5070Ti has 16GB of ram and most people don't care anyways. To make people switch you have to change the simple thoughts inside the heads of millions of young gamers. It's simple to do but AMD decided "nah. Let's not do that".
You have to get enough people shouting and talking about how much of a crazyass banger of a card AMD just released at a super low price. It has to be stupid to not buy it, and I mean like really stupid to not just get the AMD card this time. That happens if the 9070XT is $500 and the 9070 is $400. I think even $400 is a little too close to the $550 of the 5070. I think $350 is where most gamers say "you know what? Screw it. I'd much rather pay $350 than $550, plus this one has more ram". They have to start piling on the reasons why the AMD card is better in their head, but that process doesn't get triggered until the price is low enough, and $550 isn't even close.

MarkPost · Mar 5, 2025

Keller_TT said:
But AMD have outright lied yet again, about +42% vs 7900 GRE.

According to Techpowerup results, that +42% @4K claim (raster + RT average) would be conservative

+35% (raster) https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-9070-xt-nitro/34.html
+67% (RT) https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-9070-xt-nitro/37.html

blckgrffn · Mar 5, 2025

moonbogg said:
Allow me to rephrase. 95%+ of the legions of young gamer humans strolling into Microcenter, Best Buy, or any other store are going to buy the 5070 if it's the same price as the 9070, and if they are already paying over $600 then they are just getting the 5070Ti for $150 more. Also, the 5070Ti has 16GB of ram and most people don't care anyways. To make people switch you have to change the simple thoughts inside the heads of millions of young gamers. It's simple to do but AMD decided "nah. Let's not do that".
You have to get enough people shouting and talking about how much of a crazyass banger of a card AMD just released at a super low price. It has to be stupid to not buy it, and I mean like really stupid to not just get the AMD card this time. That happens if the 9070XT is $500 and the 9070 is $400. I think even $400 is a little too close to the $550 of the 5070. I think $350 is where most gamers say "you know what? Screw it. I'd much rather pay $350 than $550, plus this one has more ram". They have to start piling on the reasons why the AMD card is better in their head, but that process doesn't get triggered until the price is low enough, and $550 isn't even close.

Doesn’t matter at all when you can’t buy any Nvidia card at all.

What matters, imo, is when they walk into the store and pull out their little hand held computer and google the card that is actually maybe on the shelf it’s got great reviews and blurbs like “better performance than the 5070” and they say screw this, I am taking what I can get. AMD nailed this launch so far in that regard. Cross shopping from 5070/5070 Ti is absolutely viable now.

We will see how AMD availability and pricing shakes out tomorrow. My plastic and pile of Best Buy gift cards stands at the ready.

Darkmont · Mar 5, 2025

moonbogg said:
What does DC stand for?

Data Center

dr1337 · Mar 5, 2025

gdansk said:
No. More than 16GB VRAM is of little utility for gamers. And RNDA4 is still a gamer card.

IDK I think most gamers aren't luddites and really do want 4k120hz performance, even if most people have 8gb 3050 1440p at best.

And frankly there are a lot of us who have been on 16gb cards for years now. A 9070 seems like it wouldn't be a bad upgrade at all from my 6900xt other than the fact that, its still 16gb 4 years later...

A big reason why so many people are slow on resolution and GPU upgrades is because of how expensive all this stuff is, how poor of a value everything has been lately. The mass market pretty much never spends more than $350 on anything, from monitor to GPU. The only reason you think its not of utility, is because its not available to more people.

Where as in a world where the 9070 were 24gb or even 32gb at its $599 price, not a single soul would be saying "hmm I think it needs less ram".

gdansk · Mar 5, 2025

dr1337 said:
IDK I think most gamers aren't luddites and really do want 4k120hz performance

Maybe, eventually. But AMD didn't make a card for 4K. There isn't a lot of reason to put 32GB of GDDR7 on a mid-range card.

dr1337 said:
Where as in a world where the 9070 were 24gb or even 32gb at its $599 price, not a single soul would be saying "hmm I think it needs less ram".

In what world can you get it for free? It costs money. 3GB GDDR6 chips don't exist. We don't know if it supports GDDR7 (they surely didn't waste money validating it if it does). I'm not against more VRAM but I am skeptical it is a good match for a part like N48 which needs to compete on offering value to gamers.

Darkmont · Mar 5, 2025

I'd bet at least 80% of zoomers have made up their mind walking into a MicroCenter if they buy brick and mortar at all. Replace "look up review" on google with a "RTX 5000" tiktok search. For AMD to sell these cards at a price to move serious units would mean decapping margin

Keller_TT · Mar 5, 2025

MarkPost said:
According to Techpowerup results, that +42% @4K claim (raster + RT average) would be conservative

+35% (raster) https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-9070-xt-nitro/34.html
+67% (RT) https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-9070-xt-nitro/37.html

I've let that slide, and redacted my post there. I guess you'll get different results depending on your subset and how you slice and dice. I get a bit too critical if numbers aren't within 3% of first party claims, but then reviewers benchmark different scenarios and not necessarily the in-game benchmarks.
For the ones I took interest in, it was falling well short. Not terrible, but not as good as +42% sounds.

adroc_thurston · Mar 5, 2025

gdansk said:
We don't know if it supports GDDR7 (they surely didn't waste money validating it if it does)

all the PCBs are sure as hell built for it.

Mopetar · Mar 5, 2025

moonbogg said:
Allow me to rephrase. 95%+ of the legions of young gamer humans strolling into Microcenter, Best Buy, or any other store are going to buy the 5070 if it's the same price as the 9070, and if they are already paying over $600 then they are just getting the 5070Ti for $150 more.

We'll see if 9070 MSRP holds or not, but 5070 MSRP isn't anymore real than other Blackwell cards. On Newegg any of the $550 cards are sold out. So are all of the $600, $650, and all but one of the $700 cards.

Anyone paying $700 for a 5070 over a $600 9070 XT is a bit dense. Even though AMD isn't as good as Nvidia at RT in general, the 9070 XT is better than a 5070 on average. There's no reason outside of preferring Nvidia over AMD to buy a 5070 at any price higher than MSRP, let alone at the much inflated costs of $700 or more at which some cards are still in stock.

The 5070 Ti doesn't exist at MSRP either. Market price is closer to $1,100 based on eBay Buy It Now listings because it's completely out of stock on Newegg. Even the ridiculous bundles aren't available.

poke01 · Mar 5, 2025

I looked at reviews. Gotta say if you brought the RTX 40 super series or the RDNA3, there is zero reason to upgrade at for the money it costs to upgrade. I’m on a 4070 Super and the RX 9070XT loses to it in some non-NV titles as well and same for the 7900XT.

Adroc was right, what a boring generation. The uArch is nice but other that meh.

I rate it a 6/10 for RDNA4 and Blackwell is -1/10.

Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

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