Musk says we dont need Nato

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
14,415
9,268
136
This stuff does my head in. Am far more used to leftists denouncing NATO as an instrument of US imperialism. It confused the hell out of me when I first encountered US liberals who viewed opposition to NATO as a marker of the right.
 
Reactions: iRONic

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,590
6,037
136
Except for the times we needed nato.
Amount of times nato needed us?

NATO is a money pit. The EU now has the resources to look after it's own defense, there is no reason for the U.S. to be involved any more.
 
Dec 10, 2005
27,129
11,212
136
NATO is a money pit. The EU now has the resources to look after it's own defense, there is no reason for the U.S. to be involved any more.
Newsflash: it's not only about defending Europe. It's about protecting our own interests and maintain our influence around the globe (both in Europe and by maintaining a forward presence). It's about getting people to buy from our weapons manufacturing industry.

We're big winners as the big fish. Apparently, you just don't like winning.
 

repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
5,038
4,250
136
That post WWII order that Greenman’s parents’ generation built was nice for Americans while it lasted. Now he and the rest of the boomers can continue their long tradition of fucking things up and leaving the world worse off for everyone else.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,195
5,203
136
NATO is a money pit. The EU now has the resources to look after it's own defense, there is no reason for the U.S. to be involved any more.
You support closing our European bases, abandoning Nato standardization, abandon joint operations, intel, training and eliminating a key driver for other countries to buy from the United States?

Did it piss you off when the US declared article 5?

Does it bother you that there united states has relied on leveraging NATO for all of its military operations in the middle east?

Are you offended that NATO resource are effectively a force/capability expansion of the US military?

With reduced foriegn demand for our tech and support, do you propose increased taxation to keep the US defense industry afloat or should we begin shrinking it?

How do you propose staying on the bleeding edge of tech and doctrine without our nato partners and the global environment it creates?

Did you actually believe that NATO still exists because we are defending Europe?

Are you proposing a slashing of the US military and just return it to small defense force?

Defense from who?
Canada? Mexico?
 

iRONic

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2006
7,883
3,183
136
You support closing our European bases, abandoning Nato standardization, abandon joint operations, intel, training and eliminating a key driver for other countries to buy from the United States?

Did it piss you off when the US declared article 5?

Does it bother you that there united states has relied on leveraging NATO for all of its military operations in the middle east?

Are you offended that NATO resource are effectively a force/capability expansion of the US military?

With reduced foriegn demand for our tech and support, do you propose increased taxation to keep the US defense industry afloat or should we begin shrinking it?

How do you propose staying on the bleeding edge of tech and doctrine without our nato partners and the global environment it creates?

Did you actually believe that NATO still exists because we are defending Europe?

Are you proposing a slashing of the US military and just return it to small defense force?

Defense from who?
Canada? Mexico?
Such a waste of excellent key strokes.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
25,015
14,502
136
You support closing our European bases, abandoning Nato standardization, abandon joint operations, intel, training and eliminating a key driver for other countries to buy from the United States?

Did it piss you off when the US declared article 5?

Does it bother you that there united states has relied on leveraging NATO for all of its military operations in the middle east?

Are you offended that NATO resource are effectively a force/capability expansion of the US military?

With reduced foriegn demand for our tech and support, do you propose increased taxation to keep the US defense industry afloat or should we begin shrinking it?

How do you propose staying on the bleeding edge of tech and doctrine without our nato partners and the global environment it creates?

Did you actually believe that NATO still exists because we are defending Europe?

Are you proposing a slashing of the US military and just return it to small defense force?

Defense from who?
Canada? Mexico?
dumdum like not gr0k all that.
 

APU_Fusion

Golden Member
Dec 16, 2013
1,502
2,269
136
Greenman is getting desperate. His positions are increasingly dumb because he is having hiding the truth from himself. He will wake one day and he will realize he was the mark and a dumb one at that.

Enjoy your recession Greenman. May you get all the fruits it will yield.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,590
6,037
136
Your ignorance of history and NATO's past invoking of Article 5 is astounding.
You mean the one time it was invoked?
The U.S spends twice the total of every other member nation combined. Just under a trillion dollars. It's time to renegotiate that deal.
 
Dec 10, 2005
27,129
11,212
136
You mean the one time it was invoked?
The U.S spends twice the total of every other member nation combined. Just under a trillion dollars. It's time to renegotiate that deal.
And do you know why we spend so much and what we get out of it? We're not doing it out of the goodness of our hearts. It's power projection to ensure our access to foreign markets and have influence around the world. Other countries are not looking to have such world-wide influence, so they don't need to spend as much.
 
Reactions: hal2kilo and pmv

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
50,624
42,154
136
You mean the one time it was invoked?
The U.S spends twice the total of every other member nation combined. Just under a trillion dollars. It's time to renegotiate that deal.

The US spends so much because we want global capabilities. You think we spend a trillion bucks a year on just Euro centric stuff? lol

No small part of what actually enables this is basing in Europe which goes the fuck away if Trump walks on NATO.
 
Dec 10, 2005
27,129
11,212
136
I know how it works, and I don't think we need to spend a trillion dollars a year on defense.
Well, the first question you have to answer is "what do you want the US military to be able to do?"

The ideas that people blindly throw around: "we should cut $x from [program]" without specifying what outcomes they want is pretty dumb.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
60,610
15,777
136
Greenman is getting desperate. His positions are increasingly dumb because he is having hiding the truth from himself. He will wake one day and he will realize he was the mark and a dumb one at that.

Enjoy your recession Greenman. May you get all the fruits it will yield.
You've got more faith in him than I do.
 
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