Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Tigerick · Aug 22, 2022

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	12 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	8P + 16E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	36 MB ?	12 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

igor_kavinski · Feb 25, 2025

511 said:
My hunch is on skymont team not Pat this time 🙂

They have enemies

511 · Feb 25, 2025

igor_kavinski said:
They have enemies

I hope they get re orged or booted out cause the P core team after Haswell is a mess Skylake was a mess so many bugs and stuck on 14nm.

GLC was definitely an improvement though in every way shape and form.

AcrosTinus · Feb 25, 2025

511 said:
I hope they get re orged or booted out cause the P core team after Haswell is a mess Skylake was a mess so many bugs and stuck on 14nm.

GLC was definitely an improvement though in every way shape and form.

Golden Cove, like Skylake, will be hard to overcome. Mark my words, for more than half a decade nothing will be substantially faster (excluding Apple, these people are doing something special: My Mac Mini M4 Pro, feels faster in day to day browsing, never expected that).

511 · Feb 25, 2025

AcrosTinus said:
Golden Cove, like Skylake, will be hard to overcome. Mark my words, for more than half a decade nothing will be substantially faster (excluding Apple, these people are doing something special: My Mac Mini M4 Pro, feels faster in day to day browsing, never expected that).

Oh Apple has the most freedom in terms of designs they don't have to waste time for validation of supporting old code and don't have to deal with Complex Decoding of x86 this saves tons of time.
And they did not stagnate like Intel which is a good thing and their designs are the best rn.

511 · Mar 2, 2025

PTL A0:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1896169661169062108

511 · Mar 12, 2025

At least the CEO is capable

Intel Appoints Lip-Bu Tan as Chief Executive Officer

www.intc.com

Hulk · Mar 12, 2025

511 said:
At least the CEO is capable

Intel Appoints Lip-Bu Tan as Chief Executive Officer

www.intc.com

As one of the commentors over at Toms wrote...

"So Intel has chosen death."

QuickyDuck · Mar 13, 2025

Hulk said:
As one of the commentors over at Toms wrote...

"So Intel has chosen death."

Fabless intel could be revived like AMD

511 · Mar 13, 2025

QuickyDuck said:
Fabless intel could be revived like AMD

No lol it won't Intel will be just another fabless without a big strategic advantage

poke01 · Mar 13, 2025

Lip-Bu is good. He was also the chairperson at Nuvia. He knows his stuff

DavidC1 · Mar 13, 2025

511 said:
Oh Apple has the most freedom in terms of designs they don't have to waste time for validation of supporting old code and don't have to deal with Complex Decoding of x86 this saves tons of time.

The x86 decoding penalty is minimized with the clustered decode, their real problem is lack of proper leadership resulting in poor execution.

It was thought by some "impossible" for x86 to go OoOE, then Intel managed to get the P6 out not only with OoOE but they released the 0.35 micron process version along with the expected 0.5 micron process dashing hopes of RISC vendors of expanding their market. Back then they were firing on all cylinders.

Even in early 2000's, they were the first to adopt ALL memory and IO standards. They lost all of that, and it's been almost ten years ago where they started losing even to AMD!

The fact that in the modern age where Moore's Law gains are really slowing down they got 20% gains with Sunny and Golden Cove cores, while in the Sandy Bridge to Skylake era they barely eeked out 10% gains shows that they intentionally sabotaged themselves in the name of more profits and appeasing shareholders.

Hulk · Mar 13, 2025

DavidC1 said:
The x86 decoding penalty is minimized with the clustered decode, their real problem is lack of proper leadership resulting in poor execution.

It was thought by some "impossible" for x86 to go OoOE, then Intel managed to get the P6 out not only with OoOE but they released the 0.35 micron process version along with the expected 0.5 micron process dashing hopes of RISC vendors of expanding their market. Back then they were firing on all cylinders.

Even in early 2000's, they were the first to adopt ALL memory and IO standards. They lost all of that, and it's been almost ten years ago where they started losing even to AMD!

The fact that in the modern age where Moore's Law gains are really slowing down they got 20% gains with Sunny and Golden Cove cores, while in the Sandy Bridge to Skylake era they barely eeked out 10% gains shows that they intentionally sabotaged themselves in the name of more profits and appeasing shareholders.

The old Intel was determined to maintain a technological lead.

The new Intel is determined to create the impression of a lead.

lightisgood · Mar 13, 2025

Intel Showcases Panther Lake SoCs For The First Time To The Public, Team Blue Looks Determined For A Successful Release

Intel's Panther Lake SoCs have finally made an appearance in public, as Team Blue displays the CPU tile at Embedded World 2025

wccftech.com

This is beautiful tile design (c.f. MTL)...
Maybe Foveros is shrunk to 25um bump-pitch from 36um.

511 · Mar 13, 2025

DavidC1 said:
The x86 decoding penalty is minimized with the clustered decode, their real problem is lack of proper leadership resulting in poor execution.

It was thought by some "impossible" for x86 to go OoOE, then Intel managed to get the P6 out not only with OoOE but they released the 0.35 micron process version along with the expected 0.5 micron process dashing hopes of RISC vendors of expanding their market. Back then they were firing on all cylinders.

Even in early 2000's, they were the first to adopt ALL memory and IO standards. They lost all of that, and it's been almost ten years ago where they started losing even to AMD!

The fact that in the modern age where Moore's Law gains are really slowing down they got 20% gains with Sunny and Golden Cove cores, while in the Sandy Bridge to Skylake era they barely eeked out 10% gains shows that they intentionally sabotaged themselves in the name of more profits and appeasing shareholders.

I am not saying about penalty but the time and resources it take to maintain it here is the comment from one of Intel employees who worked on it.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1851419593702871094

Hulk · Mar 13, 2025

lightisgood said:
Intel Showcases Panther Lake SoCs For The First Time To The Public, Team Blue Looks Determined For A Successful Release

Intel's Panther Lake SoCs have finally made an appearance in public, as Team Blue displays the CPU tile at Embedded World 2025

wccftech.com

This is beautiful tile design (c.f. MTL)...
Maybe Foveros is shrunk to 25um bump-pitch from 36um.

I don't understand how it "launches" H2 2025 and "gets into the hands of consumers" in 2026?

I guess we have a new definition for the meaning of the word launch.

What is beautiful about it? We know nothing about the architecture. I guess it looks like a nice rectangle and they might have gotten rid of the filler tile so that means it's beautiful? Beautiful to me would be amazingly elegant and efficient architecture. Core2Duo was beautiful because it pushed the technology of the day to a new level of both performance and efficiency.

Okay. Now I believe Intel has pulled out of it's death spiral.

Not.

Nothingness · Mar 13, 2025

Hulk said:
What is beautiful about it? We know nothing about the architecture.

We know the architecture, but not the micro-architecture

https://cdrdv2.intel.com/v1/dl/getContent/671368

- RDMSRLIST/WRMSRLIST/WRMSRNS
- Virtualization of guest accesses to IA32_SPEC_CTRL
- Flexible Return and Event Delivery (FRED) and the LKGS instruction
- NMI-Source Reporting
- Architectural PEBS

Sexy, heh?

511 · Mar 13, 2025

Hulk said:
I don't understand how it "launches" H2 2025 and "gets into the hands of consumers" in 2026?

One answer it launches Like Lunar Lake or EEP (Early Enables Program) basically few laptops

Hulk said:
I guess we have a new definition for the meaning of the word launch.

What is beautiful about it? We know nothing about the architecture. I guess it looks like a nice rectangle and they might have gotten rid of the filler tile so that means it's beautiful? Beautiful to me would be amazingly elegant and efficient architecture. Core2Duo was beautiful because it pushed the technology of the day to a new level of both performance and efficiency.

Okay. Now I believe Intel has pulled out of it's death spiral.

Not.

I can't stop laughing reading this 🤣

adroc_thurston · Mar 13, 2025

Hulk said:
I don't understand how it "launches" H2 2025 and "gets into the hands of consumers" in 2026?

3 designs in H2'25, everything else CES'26 onwards.

511 · Mar 13, 2025

adroc_thurston said:
3 designs in H2'25, everything else CES'26 onwards.

It's not AMD we can expect the HP/ACER/DELL/Lenovo/MSI/Asus every Major Intel OEM they will ship roughly 2-3 Million Panther Lake in Q4 25 Like they did with Lunar Lake.

adroc_thurston · Mar 13, 2025

511 said:
It's not AMD we can expect the HP/ACER/DELL/Lenovo/MSI/Asus every Major Intel OEM they will ship roughly 2-3 Million Panther Lake in Q4 25 Like they did with Lunar Lake.

2-3m is like 1% of the PC TAM.
Op success?

poke01 · Mar 13, 2025

That 12Xe GPU SKU better not be for Ultra 9. If it is then it’s only for show. Those laptops will be expensive.

MoistOintment · Mar 13, 2025

adroc_thurston said:
2-3m is like 1% of the PC TAM.
Op success?

2m-3m per quarter is 4% of the TAM. 2M - 3M isn't unreasonable for Q1 26 as most models will likely launch in late January - February.

I think 20M PTL sales is easily achievable in the first 12 months, considering MTL launched in December 2023 and hit the 15 million mark by August of 2024.

Hulk · Mar 13, 2025

Nothingness said:
We know the architecture, but not the micro-architecture

https://cdrdv2.intel.com/v1/dl/getContent/671368

- RDMSRLIST/WRMSRLIST/WRMSRNS
- Virtualization of guest accesses to IA32_SPEC_CTRL
- Flexible Return and Event Delivery (FRED) and the LKGS instruction
- NMI-Source Reporting
- Architectural PEBS

Sexy, heh?

I'm in love.

igor_kavinski · Mar 13, 2025

511 said:
I can't stop laughing reading this 🤣

I'm betting Hulk's weekly Youtube podcast would be a roaring success

511 · Mar 13, 2025

adroc_thurston said:
2-3m is like 1% of the PC TAM.
Op success?

Yeah kind of but 2-3 millions are lots of Chips someone can't go around and say they barely shipped Panther Lake

Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

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