Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Tigerick · Aug 22, 2022

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	12 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	8P + 16E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	36 MB ?	12 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

Magio · Mar 13, 2025

poke01 said:
That 12Xe GPU SKU better not be for Ultra 9. If it is then it’s only for show. Those laptops will be expensive.

It might not be Ultra 9 only but it won't be cheap. It's the biggest iGPU Intel has ever had, it's gonna be a premium SKU.

511 · Mar 13, 2025

Ultra 7 variant as well the clock speed should be around 2.45-2.5 GHz for the 12Xe3 SKU

DavidC1 · Mar 13, 2025

511 said:
I am not saying about penalty but the time and resources it take to maintain it here is the comment from one of Intel employees who worked on it.

Yet the E core keeps putting out significant advancements like clockwork. So whatever the differences are, execution trumps all.

The belief that things need to be constantly overhauled and have user foot the bill with extra resources and time is flawed. Backwards compatibility IS a good thing.

The ideal world would have been where Intel never got to be successful at all, and IBM gave the deal to another company based on RISC architecture.

Magio said:
It might not be Ultra 9 only but it won't be cheap. It's the biggest iGPU Intel has ever had, it's gonna be a premium SKU.

It's not that big in a relative sense though. The 12 Xe3 version's performance will likely be matched by AMD's non-Halo version in that timeframe, so it's needed just to keep up with competition. Just like 8 Xe2 is peak today.

The thing is without the real push provided by the dGPUs, Intel won't be incentivized to put out anything other than minimum effort on drivers and even the hardware side. It was only with their first real dGPU venture they started trying on the driver side.

That's why if the dGPU is cut, it's just another blow in the long term benefit they would have got. I don't see how constantly replacing CEOs and abandoning new projects at a whim is going to get them anymore. Abandoning means you don't learn from the mistakes, so you keep repeating them, just in another fashion.

Lip-Bu Tan is just another in the Otellini/Kraznich/Swan/Gelsinger decline.

Doug S · Mar 13, 2025

511 said:
No lol it won't Intel will be just another fabless without a big strategic advantage

Intel hasn't had a strategic advantage in almost a decade thanks to their fab issues, so what's the difference?

poke01 · Mar 13, 2025

Magio said:
It might not be Ultra 9 only but it won't be cheap. It's the biggest iGPU Intel has ever had, it's gonna be a premium SKU.

I only say this cause the other SKUs have 4 GPU cores. That’s a big difference compared to 12. It’s strange, I’m surprised no pointed this out yet

There is no middle ground

adroc_thurston · Mar 13, 2025

poke01 said:
There is no middle ground

Middle ground sucks.

poke01 · Mar 13, 2025

adroc_thurston said:
Middle ground sucks.

well 4 core Ultra 5 and maybe some ultra 7 SKUs will get beaten by Strix Point refresh.

adroc_thurston · Mar 13, 2025

poke01 said:
well 4 core Ultra 5 and maybe some ultra 7 SKUs will get beaten by Strix Point refresh.

Well, Strix Point is also R9-only.
Everything below is an 8CU KRK.

DavidC1 · Mar 13, 2025

poke01 said:
I only say this cause the other SKUs have 4 GPU cores. That’s a big difference compared to 12. It’s strange, I’m surprised no pointed this out yet

There is no middle ground

Which leaks say that only Ultra 9 is 12 Xe3? Do we have more than that only -H versions will be 12 Xe3 and rest is 4 Xe3?

adroc_thurston said:
Well, Strix Point is also R9-only.
Everything below is an 8CU KRK.

Is a PTL competitor still Strix Point by that time?

adroc_thurston · Mar 13, 2025

DavidC1 said:
Is a PTL competitor still Strix Point by that time?

Aye

511 · Mar 13, 2025

DavidC1 said:
Which leaks say that only Ultra 9 is 12 Xe3? Do we have more than that only -H versions will be 12 Xe3 and rest is 4 Xe3?

Is a PTL competitor still Strix Point by that time?

Yes It will have 6-9 months of time approx if strix launches H2 2026

DavidC1 · Mar 14, 2025

511 said:
Yes It will have 6-9 months of time approx if strix launches H2 2026

You mean mainstream Strix? Is that going to replace Kraken Point in H2 2026?

I don't think there's a roadmap beyond that point is there?

Does 4 Xe3 look competitive against 8 RDNA3.5?

Hulk · Mar 14, 2025

Are Intel's fabs running right now and producing wafers for products they are selling?

Just noticed 3247 is max factorial function on calculator app. I remember in college the max on our TI calcs was 69.

lightisgood · Mar 14, 2025

Hulk said:
What is beautiful about it?

Didn't you see MTL's tile?
PTL looks like a monolithic die.
It probably uses next gen Foveros (25um bump-pitch) or Foveros direct...

P.S.
CWF uses Foveros direct on Intel 3-T and looks like a monolithic die in compute tile.

511 · Mar 14, 2025

DavidC1 said:
You mean mainstream Strix? Is that going to replace Kraken Point in H2 2026?

I don't think there's a roadmap beyond that point is there?

Does 4 Xe3 look competitive against 8 RDNA3.5?

I meant Zen 6 Medusa point 🥲 btw they are using RDNA 3.5 with Medusa Point

lightisgood · Mar 14, 2025

It's show time!

Intel reaches 'exciting milestone' for 18A 1.8nm-class wafers with first run at Arizona fab

For now, its only test wafers

www.tomshardware.com

Markfw · Mar 14, 2025

lightisgood said:
It's show time!

Intel reaches 'exciting milestone' for 18A 1.8nm-class wafers with first run at Arizona fab

For now, its only test wafers

www.tomshardware.com

"only test wafers", remember that.

lightisgood · Mar 14, 2025

Markfw said:
"only test wafers", remember that.

This is the typical case of sour grapes.
i18A is clearly established and entering HVM phase.

Markfw · Mar 14, 2025

lightisgood said:
This is the typical case of sour grapes.
i18A is clearly established and entering HVM.

Its not sour grapes, I am just pointing out that they need to finish testing before going into production. Is that a pretty fixed period ? or it it based on yield ? What is the current yield ? That will determine the real progress.

lightisgood · Mar 14, 2025

Markfw said:
Its not sour grapes, I am just pointing out that they need to finish testing before going into production. Is that a pretty fixed period ? or it it based on yield ? What is the current yield ? That will determine the real progress.

As if you knew nothing about intel's manufacturing pipeline, right?

i18A's test wafer is running at Arizona, namely Intel starts i18A HVM at Oregon.
Probably, by end of 3Q25, Intel starts i18A HVM at Arizona.

P.S.
In a word, Intel wins the race of GAA/BSPDN/sub-2nm process node.

igor_kavinski · Mar 14, 2025

lightisgood said:
In a word, Intel wins the race of GAA/BSPDN/sub-2nm process node.

You are just getting a little too excited. Let the first 18A product hit the shelves. Let the reviewers test it. Until then, nothing is certain. I'm tired of Intel's hype. It's like looking at a boring clown that you want to boot off the stage but he keeps saying, wait! wait! I have one more joke that will make you laugh really hard!

jdubs03 · Mar 14, 2025

PTL better be a significant step in performance efficiency. There will be no excuse for them to be putting out as much power (at same performance) as an equivalent ARL SKU, while using the 18A process.

This, plus releasing on time while getting sufficient and sustained volumes will go a long way toward winning more customers on the IFS side. At that point maybe one would be able to call leadership all around. Right now maybe one can make a case that on a technical basis, they’ve tied the race.. and maybe nudged slightly ahead.

poke01 · Mar 15, 2025

WTF

poke01 · Mar 15, 2025

Am I reading Q1 2026 wrong? Does that mean no H2025 Launch

511 · Mar 15, 2025

poke01 said:
Am I reading Q1 2026 wrong? Does that mean no H2025 Launch

No you are right that is the mass volume launch in Q1 26 and EEP in H2 25 basically a repeat of Lunar Lake

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