Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

DisEnchantment · Mar 23, 2022

With the GFX940 patches in full swing since first week of March, it is looking like MI300 is not far in the distant future!
Usually AMD takes around 3Qs to get the support in LLVM and amdgpu. Lately, since RDNA2 the window they push to add support for new devices is much reduced to prevent leaks.
But looking at the flurry of code in LLVM, it is a lot of commits. Maybe because US Govt is starting to prepare the SW environment for El Capitan (Maybe to avoid slow bring up situation like Frontier for example)

See here for the GFX940 specific commits

History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

The LLVM Project is a collection of modular and reusable compiler and toolchain technologies. - History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

github.com

Or Phoronix

More AMD "GFX940" Enablement Work Landing In LLVM - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

There is a lot more if you know whom to follow in LLVM review chains (before getting merged to github), but I am not going to link AMD employees.

I am starting to think MI300 will launch around the same time like Hopper probably only a couple of months later!
Although I believe Hopper had problems not having a host CPU capable of doing PCIe 5 in the very near future therefore it might have gotten pushed back a bit until SPR and Genoa arrives later in 2022.
If PVC slips again I believe MI300 could launch before it

This is nuts, MI100/200/300 cadence is impressive.

Previous thread on CDNA2 and RDNA3 here

Question - Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now. First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time! Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3...

forums.anandtech.com

blackangus · Mar 14, 2025

MrTeal said:
Nvidia hadn't fumbled launch and you could walk into any computer store and walk out with a $750 5070 Ti then how many people are going to be choosing a $600 9070 XT?

I'd hope a 150$ difference for nearly the same performance goes along way.
And for me it did, I buy for value per $ within an acceptable performance range.

blackangus · Mar 14, 2025

moonbogg said:
9070 XT for sale | eBay

Get the best deals for 9070 XT at eBay.com. We have a great online selection at the lowest prices with Fast & Free shipping on many items!

www.ebay.com

Sorted by sold items and highest price first. If you scroll through many, you'll see how the sold price generally falls slowly as the release date gets farther away. The panicked gamer has done generational damage, yet again, with their absolutely insane, unhinged, lunatic buying behavior. By purchasing at these prices, the zombified, brain dead gamer has sent an enormous bat signal style message in the skies above to the world that they crave, love, and enjoy higher GPU prices now and in the future.

Thanks!
And while its really not that many.... It is WAY too many!
That is just insane anyone would pay that much for a 9070xt.

Makes me wonder if its not scalpers all the way down, and not gamers.

moonbogg · Mar 14, 2025

The gamer has demonstrated through their buying behavior (not their proclamations on the internet) that they prefer prices to increase each generation for the same class of product. This makes them feel like it's their turn to pay a fancy price for their preferred product, and to brag about owning it. They enjoy this process until they find themselves trying to upgrade to a 50 class card for $800 and end up going without instead because now they finally can't justify going into debt for a card that crappy.

blackangus · Mar 14, 2025

moonbogg said:
The gamer has demonstrated through their buying behavior (not their proclamations on the internet) that they prefer prices to increase each generation for the same class of product. This makes them feel like it's their turn to pay a fancy price for their preferred product, and to brag about owning it. They enjoy this process until they find themselves trying to upgrade to a 50 class card for $800 and end up going without instead because now they finally can't justify going into debt for a card that crappy.

So true. Im going to retreat into my reality where people are reasonable.....

moonbogg · Mar 14, 2025

blackangus said:
So true. Im going to retreat into my reality where people are reasonable.....

Stop it. Stay here and complain with me.

Keller_TT · Mar 14, 2025

moonbogg said:
The gamer has demonstrated through their buying behavior (not their proclamations on the internet) that they prefer prices to increase each generation for the same class of product. This makes them feel like it's their turn to pay a fancy price for their preferred product, and to brag about owning it. They enjoy this process until they find themselves trying to upgrade to a 50 class card for $800 and end up going without instead because now they finally can't justify going into debt for a card that crappy.

These numbers are a drop in the ocean for the market size by the 100s of thousands of mainstream buyers considering Radeon for upgrades (I would put it in millions for those buying Nvidia). The numbers would anyways swell to millions over a year for AMD too.
With 9070 series competitiveness against Nvidia's worst slip up in recent memory, this situation was largely mitigatable if AMD wanted to. They had a LOT of time to gauge market sentiment. And AMD doesn't really have much to stand on with 9060 series with much nerfed cards.

We can see from earlier posts that most people are not buying even +100 to 150 inflated prices. Lack of sales will force hands anyways, and NV supply situation too will be much better in the medium term.

Saylick · Mar 14, 2025

moonbogg said:
The gamer has demonstrated through their buying behavior (not their proclamations on the internet) that they prefer prices to increase each generation for the same class of product. This makes them feel like it's their turn to pay a fancy price for their preferred product, and to brag about owning it. They enjoy this process until they find themselves trying to upgrade to a 50 class card for $800 and end up going without instead because now they finally can't justify going into debt for a card that crappy.

To hijack a well-known quote about a time long gone:

First, the price hikes affected the budget gamers.

And I did not speak out, because I was not a budget gamer.

Then the price hikes affected the mainstream gamers.

And I did not speak out, because I was not a mainstream gamer.

Then the price hikes affected the performance gamers.

And I did not speak out, because I was not an performance gamer.

Then the price hikes affected the enthusiast gamers.

But I did not speak out, because I was not an enthusiast gamer.

Then the price hikes affected me, the flagship-GPU-only gamer.

And there was no one left

To speak up for me!

itsmydamnation · Mar 14, 2025

Saylick said:
To hijack a well-known quote about a time long gone:

we will fight them on the VR beaches
we will fight them in the pixel steets
we will fight them in the ray traced hills
we will never surrender

blackangus · Mar 14, 2025

itsmydamnation said:
we will fight them on the VR beaches
we will fight them in the pixel steets
we will fight them in the ray traced hills
we will never surrender

except everyone surrendered.

sandorski · Mar 14, 2025

blackangus said:
except everyone surrendered.

Moar papers please!

eek2121 · Mar 14, 2025

Keller_TT said:
They had a LOT of time to gauge market sentiment.

Yet another person who has no idea how this industry works.

These products cost a TON of money and time to make. There is NO guarantee they will sell, especially when competing against a virtual monopoly that uses all the same tech you do. AMD/ATI hasn't outsold/outperformed NVIDIA in a LONG time (excluding consoles and APUs, because those markets are wildly different). If NVIDIA had actually kept shelves stocked, the 9xxx cards would NOT have sold in the numbers they did. Let me say this in another way: market sentiment was only "high" because NVIDIA "didn't ship in volume" and "no NVIDIA GPUs were available". If the RTX 5xxx series shipped in volume and on time, AMD would have found their cards unsold. The lackluster execution from NVIDIA wouldn't have even been a factor. End users don't care. Number bigger = buy.

These cards also take years to design, rely on tech that may not even be publicly available, take months to produce (time varies due to many factors, typically 90-150 days). They must be produced in large quantities with huge up front costs. Additionally, they take many. Oh and AMD can't just order a few thousand cards worth of parts, there are minimum orders for everything. Don't even get me started on the current political climate...and I'm NOT just talking about the US.

There is more than I can say on this subject, like, NO the partners aren't intentionally not making MSRP cards. They actually (usually) ship more MSRP cards than any other, but demand is WAY higher for those parts. Anyone claiming otherwise has no idea what they are talking about. Retailers don't have the numbers since board partners allocate different tiers of cards based on many factors, including income for a given area. Scalpers are an issue, of course, but not quite as big as folks would think, and that is actually mostly a retailer issue.

Sorry for the rant, I am just really tired of seeing all the clickbait videos and people complaining about this stuff. This problem isn't specific to any one company or any one thing.

Keller_TT · Mar 15, 2025

eek2121 said:
Yet another person who has no idea how this indusnottry works.

Fixed it for ya.

I have no appetite for lame excuses when it is the job of those in the business to compete. At least the CPU group had the guts to pull out all stops with Ryzen when AMD were near bankruptcy. Radeon has a much better base.

I'm in the tech industry as well with a lot of hardware overlap, even if I'm not a chip designer, and boy, the enthusiasm I see with ARM and RISC-V now and bespoke solutions would make all that defeatedness look very cringe. The industry tries much harder than what some Alleswissers proclaim.

But I'm indeed a nut case when it comes to playing up the small guy. They just need to be worthy of it and be honest in what they communicate and how they act.

adroc_thurston · Mar 15, 2025

Keller_TT said:
At least the CPU group had the guts to pull out all stops with Ryzen when AMD were near bankruptcy

Serving the proles server scraps is not "pulling out all stops".

DownTheSky · Mar 15, 2025

I'm just browsing here hoping radeon bios editor releases a new version that supports 9070. that's all.

coercitiv · Mar 15, 2025

coercitiv said:
Wait until launch, it will be "fantastic" to see cards supposedly built for market share simply disappear from stores, while AMD tells us that high demand has taken them by surprise.

Well, I guess I got my "wish":
AMD calls demand for Radeon 9070 and 9070 XT "unprecedented," says restocking at MSRP is priority number one

TESKATLIPOKA · Mar 15, 2025

Timorous said:
N33 was overpriced in both flavours, should have been $250 / $300 at most.

Considering It brought only 5% increase in performance, AV1 support and updated Display engine, then yes, It was overpriced, yet AMD still priced It at $269($329), later had to lower the MRSP for the 8GB version, not sure about the 16GB.

But this doesn't apply to N44, >40% more raster performance, >65% RT performance, better FSR4, better perf/W. It's basically better in everything and by a lot.
Even If 9060XT 16GB cost $379, It would be only 15% more expensive than 7600XT $329.
I don't consider It a bad price at all.
Even If RX 7600XT cost $299, 9060XT would be only 27% more expensive, so still good enough for what It offers in return.

Timorous said:
The 7800XT otoh was the best performance/$ RDNA3 part.

9070XT is also the best performance/$ RDNA4 part and is the successor to N32 as far as I know.

Timorous said:
As for clock speeds the 6600XT was half the size of the 6900XT and had 300Mhz higher clocks with a 160W TDP.

The 9070XT hits around 3.1Ghz so if the half size N44 with a 160W TDP manages the same absolute uplift N23 managed it would be ~3.4Ghz.

6900XT had only 300W TBP and let's not forget 6600XT had only 40% of CUs(32CU vs 80CU).
3.1GHz is the mean(average) for an 9070XT OC-ed card but at 360W power consumption.
So a 3.4GHz factory OC-ed N44 16GB could have 200W easily, If not more.
The problem is that AMD can't clock N44 too high due to TBP, because It would look really really bad in reviews to have so much worse perf/W than RX 9070 with 220W TBP despite offering much weaker performance.

Timorous said:
The other factor is that NV left the door open for the 9070XT to land in, that won't be quite so easy for the 9060XT with a 5050, 5060, 5060Ti 8GB and 5060Ti 16GB in the $250 - $500 bracket.

I don't think $330-$350 is cheap tbh, it is inline with the 9070XT maybe a bit better which you expect from the cheaper parts.

I am looking at 5070 vs 4070 Super comparison and what you get is 8% better performance for $50 less.
RTX 4060 Ti 16GB had a MRSP of $499.
RTX 5060 Ti 16GB should have a MRSP of $449 vs 9060XT 16GB at $379.
Doesn't look that bad to me.

As for the rest, the 8GB cards are DOA, doesn't matter If AMD or Nvidia, It's just not worth It and I would pay for the 16GB version instead.
What could be an interesting option is the rumored RTX 5060 12GB version at a reasonable price.

I wouldn't mind If AMD didn't release a 8GB version, but a cutdown N44 28CU 96-bit 12GB instead, but I fear the missing 32-bit would also impact the Infinity cache size or ROPs, so you could end up with worse performance than a 128-bit 8GB cutdown version in cases not limited by Vram.

P.S. As for those who want to buy a cheaper gaming laptop, I honestly pity them. They are stuck with 8GB Vram and a refresh with 12GB(3Gbit modules) will happen who knows when and at what prices.

beginner99 · Mar 15, 2025

Saylick said:
Lol, PowerGPU posted this on their Xitter account: "AMD inventory vs. Nvidia inventory"

it looks like a lot but if one would count boxes I guess it would still be less than 100 for sure probably barley 50.

Shop here had a shipment of NV and AMD. more for NV really but it's also more models. NV sold within minutes except 1 model, AMD within a couple hours expect one overpriced xt,

In2Photos · Mar 15, 2025

beginner99 said:
it looks like a lot but if one would count boxes I guess it would still be less than 100 for sure probably barley 50.

Shop here had a shipment of NV and AMD. more for NV really but it's also more models. NV sold within minutes except 1 model, AMD within a couple hours expect one overpriced xt,

Keep in mind this is an SI. They sell PCs, not PC parts. And that 1 5090 is their entire Nvidia stock, no 4000 series, no 5070 or 5080.

fastandfurious6 · Mar 15, 2025

eek2121 said:
These products cost a TON of money and time to make. There is NO guarantee they will sell, especially when competing against a virtual monopoly that uses all the same tech you do.

yeah not many realize delivering chips from fab to card to customer is veeeery long expensive process

but what about preorders? easy way to gauge interest

is the main reason the need to announce price+availability+review at the very last moment bc of competition/timing?

DAPUNISHER · Mar 15, 2025

A word on Ebay sold listings. The price you see is not necessarily the price the card sold for. I have had sellers tell me, even after agreeing to a lower price than listed and closing the deal, Ebay displayed the list price as the sold price. This can be $100s in difference.

It has to be supremely difficult for all 3 GPU companies to decide how many to produce. You don't want to miss profits, but you don't want to get stuck with warehouses full of cards when the bubble pops. If this goes on long enough, will we see brand new PCs missing the video card inundating Ebay again?

Josh128 · Mar 15, 2025

Hail The Brain Slug said:
People arent willing to pay as much as you seem to think. Most scalpers listings are around $1000-1200 and aren't selling.

This ebay listing ended without hitting reserve at $180 over retailer pricing ($760)

View attachment 119835

Heck, newegg is selling cards in combos with a $120 power supply and they arent selling quickly at all. People aren't super willing to pay even $120 extra despite getting something for it they can use or resell to cover most of that additional cost.

Maybe not everyone is a techno-cuck after all. There is hope...

Hail The Brain Slug · Mar 15, 2025

Josh128 said:
Maybe not everyone is a techno-cuck after all. There is hope...

Some people here use absolutes in an attempt to mislead. "Nobody buys radeon"
"Everyone is paying scalper prices"

Reality is not black and white. Plenty of people choose radeon and the vast majority of people arent paying scalper prices.

gdansk · Mar 15, 2025

I got my ASRock 9070 XT Steel Legend yesterday. It's a really ugly card but it seems to work.

But while testing it in Forza Horizon 4 (I still play the older one) I reduced the power limit from 304W to 213W. The benchmark dropped only 3FPS with a 0.7x power limit. That's not undervolted. The benchmark said it was GPU limited 100% of the time. Memory bandwidth shortage? Normally cutting power that much should have more impact.

Josh128 · Mar 15, 2025

Hail The Brain Slug said:
Some people here use absolutes in an attempt to mislead. "Nobody buys radeon"
"Everyone is paying scalper prices"

Reality is not black and white. Plenty of people choose radeon and the vast majority of people arent paying scalper prices.

Perhaps I spoke too soon. Just checked the 'bay. People are still paying up to +190% of MSRP as of today. Shameful.

TESKATLIPOKA · Mar 15, 2025

gdansk said:
I got my ASRock 9070 XT Steel Legend yesterday. It's a really ugly card but it seems to work.

I am glad. It would be horrible, If you had a really ugly card, which didn't even work.

Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

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