Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Tigerick · Aug 22, 2022

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	12 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	8P + 16E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	36 MB ?	12 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

Hulk · Mar 15, 2025

Remember the good old days when Intel didn't constantly update us on process status? They just put the product on the shelves and let it speak for itself.

18A status update #23 "launches" Q2 '25...

Does anybody remember Intel 20A, now THAT was a good launch.

Sorry, I AM an Intel fan. I just want them to DO something meaningful. Although the Battlemage release was meaningful I must admit. Just no volume.

511 · Mar 15, 2025

Hulk said:
Remember the good old days when Intel didn't constantly update us on process status? They just put the product on the shelves and let it speak for itself.

18A status update #23 "launches" Q2 '25...

Does anybody Intel 20A, now THAT was a good launch.

Sorry, I AM an Intel fan. I just want them to DO something meaningful. Although the Battlemage release was meaningful I must admit. Just no volume.

That was a different Intel I think after BK there were constant delays and stuff for almost everything

igor_kavinski · Mar 15, 2025

poke01 said:
Am I reading Q1 2026 wrong? Does that mean no H2025 Launch

At least there should be a nice Core Ultra 300 launch by Q42025.

Intel can save some face by launching 4P+32E halo part for the rendering/video encoding/workstation crowd. That would catch AMD off-guard for sure, unless AMD has a similar design ready with Zen5c and they can ramp up volume in a matter of months.

511 · Mar 15, 2025

igor_kavinski said:
At least there should be a nice Core Ultra 300 launch by Q42025.

Intel can save some face by launching 4P+32E halo part for the rendering/video encoding/workstation crowd. That would catch AMD off-guard for sure, unless AMD has a similar design ready with Zen5c and they can ramp up volume in a matter of months.

Not happening I wonder how powerful Nova Lake will be though it's got 16+32+4 Config

igor_kavinski · Mar 15, 2025

511 said:
Not happening

I wouldn't bet on that.

Intel’s new CEO gets a $1 million salary plus $68 million in bonuses

That looks like a lot of money.

www.tomshardware.com

They got him to invest his own money in Intel shares so he will try his best to put something competitive out ASAP otherwise he stands to lose a lot.

Even something as simple as bringing back HT in Arrow Lake (assuming it's just fused off) and AVX-512 (maybe re-using the server compute tile in consumer) could be huge things that would improve the value proposition of Intel's CPU line-up and competitiveness.

adroc_thurston · Mar 15, 2025

Hulk said:
18A status update #23 "launches" Q2 '25...

Ahhh Clearwater Forest.
What a poor and tortured part.

jdubs03 · Mar 15, 2025

igor_kavinski said:
I wouldn't bet on that.

Intel’s new CEO gets a $1 million salary plus $68 million in bonuses

That looks like a lot of money.

www.tomshardware.com

They got him to invest his own money in Intel shares so he will try his best to put something competitive out ASAP otherwise he stands to lose a lot.

Even something as simple as bringing back HT in Arrow Lake (assuming it's just fused off) and AVX-512 (maybe re-using the server compute tile in consumer) could be huge things that would improve the value proposition of Intel's CPU line-up and competitiveness.

Agreed. And yeah that’s definitely a good motivator when you’re helming a company that is in the doldrums.

poke01 · Mar 16, 2025

On the scale to 1 to 10, how good is the iGPU in Panther lake?

511 · Mar 16, 2025

poke01 said:
On the scale to 1 to 10, how good is the iGPU in Panther lake?

From the rumors and stuff it's somewhere between 1.6X - 2X LNL iGPU

511 · Mar 16, 2025

So according to AMD they are only 10% ahead in performance pef core?

QuickyDuck · Mar 16, 2025

511 said:
So according to AMD they are only 10% ahead in performance pef core?

View attachment 119998

EPYC is ahead in performance because Xeon is power constrained.
Given enough power P core should easily surpass zen core, albeit lacking in efficiency.

511 · Mar 16, 2025

QuickyDuck said:
EPYC is ahead in performance because Xeon is power constrained.
Given enough power P core should easily surpass zen core, albeit lacking in efficiency.

The P cores are not efficient Yes that is true but this is per core performance I doubt it's power constrained

poke01 · Mar 16, 2025

511 said:
From the rumors and stuff it's somewhere between 1.6X - 2X LNL iGPU

and how are they achieving that with limited bandwidth. more cache?

adroc_thurston · Mar 16, 2025

poke01 said:
more cache?

2x the SLC and the new uarch.

511 · Mar 16, 2025

poke01 said:
and how are they achieving that with limited bandwidth. more cache?

Faster Memory Speeds as well

poke01 · Mar 16, 2025

511 said:
Faster Memory Speeds as well

Nope that stays the same as lunar lake

Ghostsonplanets · Mar 16, 2025

poke01 said:
and how are they achieving that with limited bandwidth. more cache?

Aside from what everyone else said, PTL-H iGPU is also 50% wider than ARL-H Xe LPG and LNL Xe² LPG.

IMO:

PTL - H 12Xe³ - New iGP performance class
PTL - U 4/6Xe³ - =<~ MTL-H performance class
WCL - 2Xe³ - ~= MTL-U performance

511 · Mar 16, 2025

What a deal Non US people don't get good deals.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-vivobook-s-14-14-oled-laptop-copilot-pc-intel-core-ultra-5-16gb-memory-512gb-ssd-neutral-black/6595523.p?skuId=6595523&nrtv_cid=3fpu7f921haku&irgwc=1&ref=198&loc=Howl%20Technologies%2C%20Inc.&acampID=0&mpid=376373&affgroup=%22Content%22%2C%22Partners%20to%20Keep%22&intl=nosplash

511 · Mar 16, 2025

For 12Xe3 we have many Improvements also there is clear PPA Improvement as well vs Xe2 here are all the changes that have been leaked.

> 2X iGPU cache
> 20% Clock Speed Improvement
> 1.5X the Xe Cores
> Major Improvements to the Arch with Xe3
> Size Increase of iGPU die from 39mm2 N3B to 54mm2 N3E(N3B is denser in SRAM and Logic vs N3E)
> Variable register allocation
> New Xe Slice organization with 6 Xe3 Cores

Did I miss something?

gdansk · Mar 16, 2025

511 said:
What a deal Non US people don't get good deals.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-vivobook-s-14-14-oled-laptop-copilot-pc-intel-core-ultra-5-16gb-memory-512gb-ssd-neutral-black/6595523.p?skuId=6595523&nrtv_cid=3fpu7f921haku&irgwc=1&ref=198&loc=Howl%20Technologies%2C%20Inc.&acampID=0&mpid=376373&affgroup=%22Content%22%2C%22Partners%20to%20Keep%22&intl=nosplash

It was $450 earlier.

511 · Mar 16, 2025

gdansk said:
It was $450 earlier.

that is a steal NGL it's the best laptop for normal use at that price bar none

Ghostsonplanets · Mar 16, 2025

511 said:
For 12Xe3 we have many Improvements also there is clear PPA Improvement as well vs Xe2 here are all the changes that have been leaked.

> 2X iGPU cache
> 20% Clock Speed Improvement
> 1.5X the Xe Cores
> Major Improvements to the Arch with Xe3
> Size Increase of iGPU die from 39mm2 N3B to 54mm2 N3E(N3B is denser in SRAM and Logic vs N3E)
> Variable register allocation
> New Xe Slice organization with 6 Xe3 Cores

Did I miss something?

Outside of sub-triangle opacity culling for better RTRT, no.

Where was the tile size of 12Xe³ shared? That's quite the increase in area dedicated for graphics.

511 · Mar 16, 2025

Ghostsonplanets said:
Outside of sub-triangle opacity culling for better RTRT, no.

Where was the tile size of 12Xe³ shared? That's quite the increase in area dedicated for graphics.

If they add major changes with Xe3 than this area increase is justified example a 12 Xe2 would be slightly larger than 60mm2 N3B(considering the fact that the graphic tile consists of exclusively the cores and the caches)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1812898063502938260

Ghostsonplanets · Mar 16, 2025

511 said:
If they add major changes with Xe3 than this area increase is justified example a 12 Xe2 would be slightly larger than 60mm2 N3B(considering the fact that the graphic tile consists of exclusively the cores and the caches)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1812898063502938260
View attachment 120016

Thank you!

I'm certainly interested in how Intel will improve PPA with PTH/WCL Celestial.

Battlemage already was a massive improvement with a 20 Xe² die being faster than a ACM 32 Xe die. And Lunar Lake was already very toe to toe with Ryzen AI HX 390 at lower TDP.

Perhaps we'll see the first performance leap from Intel over AMD on IGP space?

511 · Mar 16, 2025

Ghostsonplanets said:
Thank you!

I'm certainly interested in how Intel will improve PPA with PTH/WCL Celestial.

Battlemage already was a massive improvement with a 20 Xe² die being faster than a ACM 32 Xe die. And Lunar Lake was already very toe to toe with Ryzen AI HX 390 at lower TDP.

Perhaps we'll see the first performance leap from Intel over AMD on IGP space?

The area efficiency sucks for battlemage sucks as a dGPU though they improve that as well with celestial and for second part strix halo exits but it is damm expensive vs Panther Lake also this new feature I found on the web 🤣

Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

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