Discussion Will the PS5 pro have the performance of 4070 or 4070 super ?

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marees

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Many believe - with some justification - that the PS5 Pro is a step too far and that such a console isn't needed. In fact, we've made the argument ourselves. Looking back at that piece, I warned about higher costs of a Pro console, but also looked at the potential improvements it could bring - all of which have come to pass with PS5 Pro. Microsoft declined the opportunity to follow likewise, but now we have some idea of why Sony has taken a different route and perhaps more of the strategy is now understandable.

Looking at the criticisms of PS5 Pro today, I am reminded of the massive backlash against Nvidia's RTX 20-series products based on the Turing architecture back in 2018. The products were pricey, nobody bought into the AI narrative, ray tracing was derided. And yet today, DLSS upscaling has proven to be one of the most transformative technologies in the PC space - a desired feature for users and coveted by the competition. Ray tracing? With smart technological innovations, an immense level of investment in software like ReSTIR and strategic partnerships with key game makers, Nvidia brought actual path tracing to triple-A games.

None of this happened overnight and yet Nvidia has now effectively defined the direction of travel for graphics innovation and consoles need to catch up. And that's where PS5 Pro comes in. Sony has taken the smart path here, delivering the custom silicon required where AMD did not seem to have any, while at the same time developing PlayStation Spectral Resolution (PSSR) on the software side. We've now been 'eyes on' with PSSR across a range of games and while there's still work to be done in improving it, it's a big leap beyond existing upscaling solutions. But we shouldn't forget that the machine learning hardware isn't just a fixed function AI upscaling block - it can be used for all manner of tasks. PSSR delivers the biggest bang for the buck, but it's just the beginning.

We are looking at such a big change here that absolutely we should be looking at PlayStation 5 Pro as the console that sets the ball rolling for Sony in an area of crucial importance. I'd even venture to suggest that PlayStation 6 may even need PlayStation 5 Pro to exist for this evolution to happen. Sony's technology groups need time to develop technologies like PSSR and to ship them and to refine them. Meanwhile, developers need to grow accustomed to these technologies instead of simply focusing on them for their PC games.

 

marees

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Gran Turismo 7 supports 120 frames per second, and the AI-powered PSSR scaling might be enough for that to work seamlessly, but I didn’t get to see that in action. What I did see was the 60 fps that stayed consistent across three full races at three different times of day, whether it was the minivan, a cherry red sports car, or the enormous black pickup truck

As I come across the first turn of the Tokyo Expressway, I have to admit I’m pretty impressed by the detailed reflection off the side of my van. Cars and buildings all around me are bent and warped by the vehicle’s rounded sides just like one would expect. The rain that’s falling is sharp when I switch to the first-person view and watch it run down my windshield. The clouds in the distance looked lifelike and ominous, allowing only a small amount of ray traced light to pass through.

 

marees

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PlayStation 5 Pro Feels Like Upgrading From an RTX 3060 to an RTX 4070; PSSR Can Improve Ray Tracing Quality​


In a video shared recently on YouTube, the tech experts at Digital Foundry talked about the upcoming mid-generation system from Sony after having had the chance to go hands-on with it, saying that in games like F1 24, where the developer put plenty of effort into the PS5 Pro update, upgrading from the base model feels indeed like upgrading the GPU in a gaming system.

Even in other scenarios where the visual improvements aren't as massive, the PlayStation 5 Pro is definitely worth it for those players who play demanding console games in Performance Mode and wish to experience much better visual quality.
 

Mopetar

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I am reminded of the massive backlash against Nvidia's RTX 20-series products based on the Turing architecture back in 2018. The products were pricey, nobody bought into the AI narrative, ray tracing was derided. And yet today, DLSS upscaling has proven to be one of the most transformative technologies in the PC space

If Nvidia were still using the same approach for DLSS that they did with Turing it would not be nearly as popular. They realized it wasn't a good approach and changed up a lot with DLSS and subsequent versions that not only improved the performance, but made it far more useable.

If the PS5 Pro were $100 less expensive people might grumble a bit, but they'd still line up to buy one. At $200 less many of them would start praising it. To borrow a phrase, there are no bad consoles, just badly priced ones.
 
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marees

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The 4070 gpu has die size of 294 mm² (on 5nm)


The base PS5 slim has ~260mm2 (on 6nm)


If we assume the PS5 pro is also on 6nm & 50% bigger then we get die size of ~390mm2 (on 6nm)

I think that ahould comfortably match a 4070 (subject to power & CPU constraints)


PS5 Pro's PSSR upscaler tested against FSR 3.1 and Nvidia DLSS 3.7 in Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart​

Just one implementation in one game - but the results are compelling.
Face-off by Alex Battaglia Video Producer, Digital Foundry
Published on Oct. 19, 2024

 

marees

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Because of console specific optimizations PS5 in combo with PSSR might perform like 4070 super + DLSS


PS5 Pro Achieves Significant Performance Improvements, Says Dev; The Most Impressive Aspect Is PSSR​


Earlier today, we shared an excerpt from an interview in which Dying Light Franchise Director Tymon Smektala mentioned how PlayStation Spectral Super Resolution could be more important than the other hardware advancements.

Interestingly, we can now reinforce that opinion with similar impressions from our PS5 Pro Q&A with Nexon's Engine Programmer Junhwan Kim, who worked on the enhancements coming to the free-to-play looter shooter The First Descendant. Kim also believes that PSSR is the console's most impressive feature and even went as far as saying its image quality stands up to any other upscalers on the market, including NVIDIA DLSS. Interestingly, they decided to mix PSSR upscaling with AMD FSR frame generation.

 
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marees

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4090 ???

I spent most of this review playing the PS5 Pro on my Formovie UST 4K projector, which was outputting to a 120-inch screen around eight feet away from my seat. So, as you can imagine, I had a pretty close look at graphical details. It's often annoying to play console games on such a large screen, where every imperfection is magnified to an obscene degree. But the PS5 Pro felt similar to projecting from my RTX 4090 gaming PC: Gameplay looked wonderful at 60 fps and it was all delivered in scrumptious detail.

 
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marees

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PS5 Pro review roundup: Sony's new PlayStation 5 gets a mixed reception

  • 🤷‍♂️ The reviews for Sony’s PS5 Pro are in and they’re fairly unenthusiastic
  • 💰 The overall theme is that the console delivers but doesn’t do enough to warrant the price tag
  • 👀 Some reviewers said the differences are hard to see unless you sit close to your TV
  • 🎮 For most people, the standard PS5 will be more than enough

https://www.theshortcut.com/p/ps5-pro-review-roundup

 

marees

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The reviews​

  • The Verge (8/10): “The kind of person who should buy a PS5 Pro is the kind of person who doesn’t want to muck around. They’ll want the best console gaming experience money can buy, a large OLED display to go with it, and a plan to park themselves real close to that screen.”
  • IGN (7/10): “An impressive console with noticeable boosts in performance and graphics for games that take advantage of its powerful hardware. But for $700, you’ll need to think twice about whether or not the upgrade is worth the price tag.”
  • Tom’s Guide (4/5): “PS5 Pro is a powerful refresh of the base PS5 hardware. It’s the best way to experience the PS5’s large library of must-play games and the current pinnacle of console gaming. However, the eye-watering $699 price tag makes it a machine that will only appeal to the most dedicated gamers.”
  • TechRadar (4/5): “A superb console and now the best PlayStation 5 machine available. The advancements are glorious and bring a new level of immersion and beauty to games, while also boosting performance levels to offer fluid and smooth frame rates – at the same time – offering a clear advancement over the base PS5, and will be perfect for those enthusiasts yearning for more from the camps of fidelity and performance. The increase to 2TB of storage and the inclusion of Wi-Fi 7 are very welcome and make tangible operational advancements too. However, the headline graphical upgrades aren’t truly groundbreaking and if you’re not a PlayStation fanatic or graphics obsessive then you can likely skip the Pro.”
  • Gamesradar (3.5/5): “PS5 Pro only suits its price tag in niche circumstances, but it does deliver on its promise to improve both graphics and framerates. That $699.99 / £699.99 MSRP is still difficult to justify, particularly for those using a standard living room setup with a 50 – 65-inch TV. Those using a large display or a monitor are going to feel the benefits more keenly – especially if you have the funds to stay at the cutting edge of tech.”
All in all, the PlayStation 5 Pro seem to offer a better gaming experience – for those who can afford it. However, for those who already own a regular PS5, shelling out for this one isn’t worth the improvements, unless money isn’t an issue. After all, this is a mid-gen refresh, not a full-blown generational jump.

https://www.club386.com/ps5-pro-review-roundup-fast-but-expensive/
 

marees

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More review round-up:

Techradar - 4/5​

The PS5 Pro is a superb console and now the best PlayStation 5 machine available. The advancements are glorious and bring a new level of immersion and beauty to games, while also boosting performance levels to offer fluid and smooth frame rates - at the same time - offering a clear advancement over the base PS5, and will be perfect for those enthusiasts yearning for more from the camps of fidelity and performance. The increase to 2TB of storage and the inclusion of Wi-Fi 7 are very welcome and make tangible operational advancements too.
However, the headline graphical upgrades aren’t truly groundbreaking and if you’re not a PlayStation fanatic or graphics obsessive then you can likely skip the Pro. Plus, the exclusion of a disc drive and stand, despite its position as an enthusiast console, is disappointing. But if you have an eye for detail, want to be at the bleeding edge of console tech, and want to get the most out of this PlayStation generation, then the PS5 Pro is the console to get.
Click to expand...

IGN - 7/10​

The visual quality that the Pro-enhanced performance modes have thus far look fantastic, and it’s all the more enticing because hitting 60fps gives a smooth gameplay experience that’s tough to come back from. I’ve also found performance modes on the base PS5 to be lackluster in some cases, and since the Pro has shown the potential in addressing that shortcoming, I find that the new console can be a worthy investment.
For a lot of people, playing at 30fps isn’t necessarily a dealbreaker, and if you’re happy with that level of performance you might well be happier with a few hundred dollars still in your bank account.
And the Pro is a hard sell for anybody who expects a whole new experience when they unbox a brand-new console. The PS5 Pro doesn’t fundamentally transform how games are played, it just makes them look prettier and run smoother, and if you’re happy with how your games look and play on a base PS5 then it’s absolutely not worth paying a premium to upgrade.

GamesRadar - 7/10​

The PS5 Pro only suits its price tag in niche circumstances, but it does deliver on its promise to improve both graphics and framerates. That $699.99 / £699.99 MSRP is still difficult to justify, particularly to those using a standard living room setup with a 50 - 65-inch TV. Those using a large display or a monitor are going to feel the benefits more keenly - especially if you have the funds to stay at the cutting edge of tech.

Polygon - No Score​

Considering that the PS5 Pro costs $250 more than the most affordable PS5 slim model (and $300 more than a Sony-refurbished PS5), this isn’t an upgrade to be taken lightly for current owners and newcomers alike. It’s also not an upgrade that will scream “new” to PS5 owners in any way. The UI is exactly the same throughout, and the Pro is too subtle at times with communicating its benefits.
As time goes on, how much better the PS5 Pro is compared to the base PS5 will eventually fade into the background. Instead, how the PS5 Pro stacks up to the always-evolving state of PC graphics in 2025 and beyond will be a much more interesting — and telling — sign of whether it’s worth your money.

The Verge - No Score​

The kind of person who should buy a PS5 Pro is the kind of person who doesn’t want to muck around. They’ll want the best console gaming experience money can buy, a large OLED display to go with it, and a plan to park themselves real close to that screen.

Ars Technica - No Score​

Back when the PlayStation 2 launched, I distinctly remember thinking that video game graphics had reached a "good enough" plateau, past which future hardware improvements would be mostly superfluous. That memory feels incredibly quaint now from the perspective of nearly two-and-a-half decades of improvements in console graphics and TV displays. Yet the PS5 Pro has me similarly feeling that the original PS5 was something of a graphical plateau, with this next half-step in graphical horsepower struggling to prove its worth.
Maybe I'll look back in two decades and consider that feeling similarly naive, seeing the PS5 Pro as a halting first step toward yet unimagined frontiers of graphical realism. Right now, though, I'm comfortable recommending that the vast majority of console gamers spend their money elsewhere.

GameSpot - No Score​

What Mark Cerny and the engineers at Sony proposed to do in the PS5 Pro reveal has been achieved to a degree. The gap between how a fidelity mode looks and the way a performance mode plays and feels is smaller. Having a technology like PSSR and a machine-learning chip in consoles is also impressive. But, for now, all of this is only exciting on paper; it's not enough to recommend over the alternative, cheaper options. And, ultimately, there is still a choice to be made between better visuals and performance, just with a less noticeable trade-off. I hope that one day the PS5 Pro really shows off what it can do to elevate games, but for now, this is a console you should get only if you've got cash to spare and just want to know you have the latest version of the console. For everyone else, a standard PS5 will do just fine.


https://www.pushsquare.com/features...ove-new-tech-and-its-glimpse-of-ps6-potential
 

marees

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Can PS5 Pro run Elden Ring at 60 frames per second?​

No - but Game Boost still makes this the best console experience out there.

many commentators have compared the Pro's rasterisation performance to the RX 6800. Based on our Elden Ring tests with quality settings comparable to PS5 (and ramped slightly higher if there is no exact match with consoles), the 6800 is faster. This is just one test though: it require a good deal more research to get a firm handle on how performant the Pro really is.


In testing PS5 Pro's game boost, I started with the quality mode. With fixed settings and resolution in place, we can get performance differentials calculated using like-for-like content. We'd hope for the Pro to lock to 60fps, but if it does not, we can see the exact level of performance improvement you do get and in general, it varies according to context but is broadly in the 30 to 35 percent range. A lot of the game will run at 60fps, but it's hardly consistent and for the most part you're in the 50s - though truly challenging scenes can take you into the 40s. This is important as PS5's VRR support at 60Hz drops out at 48fps, so dips beneath this will look jarring - otherwise VRR saves the day in terms of game fluidity.

If the quality mode is struggling, it stands to reason that the performance mode with dynamic resolution scaling should perform a lot better - and it does, to a certain extent. Whether it's down to problems with the DRS system working with new hardware or else a CPU limitation, you still don't get a locked 60fps with a weird assortment of dropped frames - sometimes singular, sometimes clustered. However, the crucial point is that it's enough to keep you within the VRR window, so by default this becomes the best way to play Elden Ring on consoles.

The ray tracing mode? This is notorious for poor performance on the standard PS5 and even if the full 45 percent of extra performance was brought to bear, you'd still be nowhere near 60fps. Here, the results are strange overall. Sometimes it runs significantly better on Pro, while at other times, there's barely any difference at all. Without visibility into system load, we can only offer conjecture but the smart money would be on the extra CPU overhead ray tracing requires meaning that the Pro ping-pongs between CPU and GPU limitations. The ray tracing mode was poor on the standard PS5 and there's no joy with the Pro experience.
 

marees

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PSSR works:

Sony has made a big deal out of how its new PlayStation Spectral Super Resolution upscaling technique will help with both image quality and frame rate, because games can render a lower-resolution image without sacrificing detail. My nerd brain hears this and assumes it means I’ll see more artifacts and junk in exchange for smoother frame rates, but to my surprise, it was almost entirely invisible. (It's similar to Nvidia’s DLSS technology.)

That clear advantage made me feel more comfortable switching my games to Performance mode. Normally, I’m a quality fiend. I mean, I opened this review by talking about the hue of specular reflections in metallic surfaces; I’m the kind of person who wants to see games in the best visual quality I can get. But it can also be disorienting to swing through the skyline of New York as Spidey on 30 fps.

On the PS5 Pro, I didn’t have to settle. I could get that super-smooth motion without making NYC look like it has the same population as Bright Falls. I felt like I could pick which mode suited each game best—I still tended to prefer ray-tracing in Alan Wake II—rather than feeling myself constrained against the hardware’s limitations.

 

marees

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No clear answer. PSSR effect varies acros different implementations in different games

PSSR machine learning-based upscaling - strengths and weaknesses​

Nvidia has blazed a trail with ray tracing support and machine learning-based upscaling - culminating in the arrival of triple-A titles that feature path-traced lighting. While PS5 Pro's RT hardware isn't quite in the same league, seemingly, PSSR upscaling is broadly comparable. It operates on the same principles as Nvidia DLSS and seems to use the same inputs - but it's going to be down to Sony to disclose more on the technology, should it so choose.

We've covered PSSR in depth in the pre-release period across two games - The Last of Us Part 2 and Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart - with the latter allowing us to stack up Sony's upscaling efforts against PC standards like FSR 3.1 and DLSS 3.7. However, in this review period, we have a much better understanding of how the technology plays out across more games - and that's important as similar to DLSS and FSR, we cannot expect every game to have uniformly excellent upscaling implementations

There's a general rule of thumb in this launch period: Sony's use of PSSR is generally excellent across all supported games, while partner studios are also delivering excellent results. Stellar Blade's PSSR implementation is simply fantastic with game-changing image quality up against the standard PS5 version. The same can be said for Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth, which we've already covered. Our preview looked at just one gameplay segment, but the quality boost extends across the whole game.

Upscaling Face-Off: PS5 Pro PSSR vs PC DLSS/FSR 3.1 in Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart
We've already tested PSSR upscaling quality up against FSR 3.1 and DLSS 3.7 using Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart - and the results are quite impressive. PSSR quality will vary on a game-by-game basis, however.Watch on YouTube
However, third party support of PSSR is not quite so universally good. Codemasters' F1 24 looks good in its quality mode, but it's interesting to note that 8K and 4K 120Hz modes do not use it. Meanwhile, PSSR support with RT enabled in Dragon's Dogma 2 has serious issues when panning the camera. Alan Wake 2 image quality isn't quite as good as we were expecting, especially in the lower internal resolution performance mode - upscaling from 864p. Dragon Age: The Veilguard in its 60fps mode also upscales from a similarly low resolution and again, image quality has issues - check out the video above to see how that looks in motion of both of these games.

We need to take a closer look at PSSR across more games, but one thing to bear in mind is that similar to FSR and DLSS, this is an evolving technology and we should expect improvements to roll out as the generation progresses. And it may well be the case that some developers choose to pursue other options: Guerrilla Games has done just that with its new upscaling technology in Horizon Zero Dawn Remastered and Horizon Forbidden West, both of which use bespoke solutions that produce what we think is - point blank - the best image quality we've seen from any console game.

This is interesting

PS5 Game Boost - what does it do?​

We had no idea what to expect from Game Boost, except that we would expect to see some level of improved performance on legacy games. Looking back to PS4 Pro, you got a marginal increase to GPU performance (typically around 15 percent max in line with the increase in GPU clocks but seemingly no access to the extra compute units) but a whopping great 30 percent increase to CPU clocks, meaning you could actually play Assassin's Creed Unity smoothly.

As PS5 Pro's GPU clocks are much the same as the standard model, we must assume that Game Boost is instead using all of the new compute units in the way that PS4 Pro did not as the increases are substantial. You can read about my impressions in attempting to run Elden Ring at 60fps elsewhere, but the bottom line is that a lot of the PS5 games I tested showed an increase of around 30 to 35 percent in extra performance.

In many cases (like Silent Hill 2, for example), that's enough to make a wobbly 60fps mode run much more consistently. The biggest boosts may come from 120Hz game modes - Devil May Cry 5 Special Edition seemed to show anything from a 30 to 50 percent performance improvements in like-for-like content.

 

marees

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8K

the revelation was playing the Albert Park Grand Prix circuit in EA Sports F1 2024. I know that track very well; it’s where I used to play basketball, and it used to be my local pool. I also recently did a big bike race that started and ended there, and every year I go and ride my bike around the track the day when it’s all set up for the Grand Prix before they close the track for practice.

In 4K, Albert Park looks great and really detailed. In 8K at 60fps, it feels like I’m there. The details on the bricks of the Victorian Institute of Sport building are perfect. I can see the place I usually sit. The buildings in the background aren’t perfect, but the details of the track and the features around it are.

With the higher resolution, extra detail and higher frame rate, I can see all of it, and I can look around the track more easily because it’s moving so smoothly. It’s incredibly immersive. I can also sit closer to the TV to make it my whole field of view without feeling sick or seeing pixels.

8K TVs start at $4,795 at JB Hi-Fi for a 65-inch model. Though, with 8K, bigger is better to actually make the most of it, so it’s best to go for an 85-inch TV, which starts at $7,988 for the truly breathtaking Samsung QN900C. It’s probably not going to be worth it for most people yet, and it might be worth waiting until the prices come down a bit lower, or there’s a decent sale.

 
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marees

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9070 non-xt to have RT around 4070

PS5 pro will have much lower clocks compared to the vanilla 9070
so the ps5 pro should be comparable to 4060 ti super (in RT)

 

marees

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Digital Foundry say that this gen, it will not possible to build a PC with equivalent or better performance than consoles for the same price!

"It's not at all going to be any point in the near future where you get a $499 USD complete PC that is going to be rivaling the GPU experience you get there on the console side."



 
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Mopetar

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Sad but true. The GPU market is so awful right now that a comparable card costs as much as the entire console.

I think I'll just pick up a PS5 (maybe even a Pro) and wait for the AI bubble to burst.
 

MoragaBlue

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Sad but true. The GPU market is so awful right now that a comparable card costs as much as the entire console.

I think I'll just pick up a PS5 (maybe even a Pro) and wait for the AI bubble to burst.

Agreed.

The current GPU market, pricing and availability just makes no sense to me. The best advice I've gotten on this board was to stick with my 12GB 3080, and just wait it out.

As such, I just picked up the PS5 for $399 with Astro Bot, which seems like a pretty good deal, all things considered. For my purposes, this will allow me to wait for the PS6, play some PS5 exclusive games, and wait for the GPU market to sort itself out.
 
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marees

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The PS5 Pro upgrade here is pretty enormous in its 60fps performance mode, which honestly looks generationally improved over its base console counterpart. The RTGI does seem to have a considerable performance impact here, but it's absolutely critical for lighting in this particular title. It's hard to overstate how diminished the game is without the technique.

 

MoragaBlue

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The PS5 Pro upgrade here is pretty enormous in its 60fps performance mode, which honestly looks generationally improved over its base console counterpart. The RTGI does seem to have a considerable performance impact here, but it's absolutely critical for lighting in this particular title. It's hard to overstate how diminished the game is without the technique.


If I hadn't already built my gaming rig and starting gaming anew today (as mentioned, the current GPU market is utterly unappealing), I'd have opted for the PS5 Pro. It plays some of my favorite games at a high enough FPS and res, e.g., Lies of P & Elden Ring (assume at around 50 on 4K?), and would suit my purposes better in this current environment. Right now, just seems to me one would get more bang for the buck going the console route, and just using a standard PC/laptop.

Also, hadn't realized this, but the lack of an optical drive doesn't really bother me. I mean, these days, when are we not on the net with dazzling speeds? For instance, though I have God of War on disk somewhere, I just bought it again for $10 bucks rather than retrieving it from wherever I had stored it and popping in the disk. During Sony's current sale, I just picked up a bunch of games, though, of course, ER & SOTE pack wasn't on sale.

Finally, in my view, there's nothing quite like the console on big TV experience.
 
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