Discussion ARM Cortex/Neoverse IP + SoCs (no custom cores) Discussion

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soresu

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2014
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Trying to read the ARM developer documentation is an exercise in frustration.

Found something called TTBR_EL mentioned, and instead of having it immediately identified I had to go through a whole song and dance search saga to find out what it means 😱
 

soresu

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2014
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Maybe to prevent fragmentation and confusing readers? You can change the topic of this thread to something like "Future ARM Discussion".
Kinda the opposite of what I was going for.

The current title is very specific, people just kept veering off that topic, which makes it harder to find information in older posts without knowing the exact text, or going through each page 1 by 1.
 
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Jul 27, 2020
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The current title is very specific, people just kept veering off that topic, which makes it harder to find information in older posts without knowing the exact text, or going through each page 1 by 1.
How about "index" important stuff or start of relevant discussions in this thread in the first post? That's one way, though it would be pretty cumbersome (for you but everyone else will reap the benefit ).
 

Nothingness

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2013
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Trying to read the ARM developer documentation is an exercise in frustration.
Wait until you start looking for complex points (for instance the use of barriers).

That said I'm not sure Intel and AMD documentation is any better. When an architecture becomes complex its documentation becomes complex too. That's why a fast pdf reader is a requirement to quickly search for words in the document, because the information is found in multiple places (if that wasn't the case you would end up with documents 2x or 3x larger).
 

Nothingness

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Jul 3, 2013
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How about "index" important stuff or start of relevant discussions in this thread in the first post? That's one way, though it would be pretty cumbersome (for you but everyone else will reap the benefit ).
That doesn't work because when you are discussing a dozen of CPUs there are multiple posts discussing other things in the middle of the discussion about one core.

Imagine having a single thread for all Zen CPUs.
 

soresu

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2014
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Those custom instructions have always been added to the ARM ISA down the road. First the ones that helped with x86 emulation and supported the strong x86 memory model, then Apple's AMX that became SME.
While ARM did add some instructions like LSE2 that do help with x86 emulation, it should be noted that the lions share of better x86 -> ARM64 emulation (binary translation) performance foudn in M1+ comes from Apple's µArch itself, rather than ISA extensions.
 
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Nothingness

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2013
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While ARM did add some instructions like LSE2 that do help with x86 emulation, it should be noted that the lions share of better x86 -> ARM64 emulation (binary translation) performance foudn in M1+ comes from Apple's µArch itself, rather than ISA extensions.
It's a combination of both uarch and instructions. The store ordering is an important uarch thing, but the brain dead flag computation of x86 requires specific instructions.

IIRC Qualcomm also implemented store ordering.
 
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