Did anyone know the Bible advocated for an abortion if a woman cheats on her husband and becomes pregnant?

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
37,881
30,553
136
I didn't know this. Any of you pro-life people want to comment? Interesting there are no punishments for the guy who banged a married man's wife. This can also apply to any woman who is raped. The Bible says she should get an abortion.

Numbers 5:11-31

11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

29 “‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the Lord and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.’”
 
Reactions: hal2kilo
Feb 4, 2009
35,739
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I did not, I’ll follow up with my pastor he is good explaining stuff.
This is Old Testament stuff which basically is superseded by New Testament stuff.

Important point our ancient ancestors didn’t look at children how we look at children. To them a child was a small or smaller more useless and more irritating adult. They simply did not understand the concept of “childhood”. For our Biblical ancestors it wasn’t weird to leave an unwanted or extra baby outside because someone who wanted a baby could take the baby as their own.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
28,907
28,895
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I did not, I’ll follow up with my pastor he is good explaining stuff.
This is Old Testament stuff which basically is superseded by New Testament stuff.

Important point our ancient ancestors didn’t look at children how we look at children. To them a child was a small or smaller more useless and more irritating adult. They simply did not understand the concept of “childhood”. For our Biblical ancestors it wasn’t weird to leave an unwanted or extra baby outside because someone who wanted a baby could take the baby as their own.
Christians sure cite the old testament a lot when it suits them for something supposedly superseded by the new testament.
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
4,147
709
126
Not pro-life but it seems pretty easy to wave away. You need follow the text exactly. I don't think drinking water mixed with some dirt swept up from the floor is a reliable way to perform an abortion...
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,739
17,277
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Christians sure cite the old testament a lot when it suits them for something supposedly superseded by the new testament.
Not the ones I know however I am a Protestant now. People who cite the fire & brimstone aren’t doing it right. That is not what it’s about.
 
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Jul 27, 2020
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Now if some unscrupulous priests started using something "bitter" that actually had fetus-abortive qualities, it sure would let them become the talk of the town on how they assisted a man punish her unfaithful wife.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
37,881
30,553
136
Not pro-life but it seems pretty easy to wave away. You need follow the text exactly. I don't think drinking water mixed with some dirt swept up from the floor is a reliable way to perform an abortion...
I don't know about reliability, but it specifically says you drink it to miscarry.
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
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Not pro-life but it seems pretty easy to wave away. You need follow the text exactly. I don't think drinking water mixed with some dirt swept up from the floor is a reliable way to perform an abortion...

AFAIK the Bible has more of a rep regarding moral guidance than as a recipe book.
 
Reactions: iRONic
Nov 29, 2006
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Id love to see someone go up to their priest today with "an offering of a tenth of an ephah of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy"

Priest would be like WTF lol
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
4,147
709
126
AFAIK the Bible has more of a rep regarding moral guidance than as a recipe book.
OK, so morally abortion is only OK in the case of a married woman cheating. Seems like a good compromise for them, all abortion is outlawed except in cases of infidelity.

It is completely pointless to shove bible verses in pro lifer noses. The bible is full of contradictions.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,857
2,669
136
I did not, I’ll follow up with my pastor he is good explaining stuff.
This is Old Testament stuff which basically is superseded by New Testament stuff.
The Christian God is supposed to be perfect and unchanging. The old testament god is the same as the new testament god, changing his mind doesn't make sense. Asking your pastor will likely end up with some handwaiving like this
Important point our ancient ancestors didn’t look at children how we look at children. To them a child was a small or smaller more useless and more irritating adult. They simply did not understand the concept of “childhood”. For our Biblical ancestors it wasn’t weird to leave an unwanted or extra baby outside because someone who wanted a baby could take the baby as their own.
See that's a perfectly acceptable answer if the bible was made up by men and written by men with the morals and knowledge of their time. That answer is nonsense when talking about the all knowing, all loving, all powerful creator of the universe who is supposed to be perfect.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,857
2,669
136
I didn't know this. Any of you pro-life people want to comment? Interesting there are no punishments for the guy who banged a married man's wife. This can also apply to any woman who is raped. The Bible says she should get an abortion.

Numbers 5:11-31
The bible also condoned slavery, and the common excuse is that it's just how it was back then and it'd be too difficult for God to tell them not to do it. He could tell them not to eat shellfish or wear mixed fabrics, but telling them not to own other people was just too much for the creator of the universe.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,739
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The Christian God is supposed to be perfect and unchanging. The old testament god is the same as the new testament god, changing his mind doesn't make sense. Asking your pastor will likely end up with some handwaiving like this

See that's a perfectly acceptable answer if the bible was made up by men and written by men with the morals and knowledge of their time. That answer is nonsense when talking about the all knowing, all loving, all powerful creator of the universe who is supposed to be perfect.
It’s a different view point, Old Testament is written for a different time in humanity, New Testament is the guide for our life. The book is full of allegories this is what one is supposed to reflect upon not specific items as in why is there a fig tree in a vineyard or what is mana. The entire point is to think about the story not the specific minutia of the story.
Feel free to disagree, that’s perfectly fine. I find a certain comfort in it all.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
65,489
13,840
146
OK, so morally abortion is only OK in the case of a married woman cheating. Seems like a good compromise for them, all abortion is outlawed except in cases of infidelity.

It is completely pointless to shove bible verses in pro lifer noses. The bible is full of contradictions.
You must have missed it above:

 
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JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,857
2,669
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It’s a different view point, Old Testament is written for a different time in humanity, New Testament is the guide for our life. The book is full of allegories this is what one is supposed to reflect upon not specific items as in why is there a fig tree in a vineyard or what is mana. The entire point is to think about the story not the specific minutia of the story.
Feel free to disagree, that’s perfectly fine. I find a certain comfort in it all.
Yes, again this makes sense if you take the bible as a book written by men with morals and knowledge of their time, not if it's written by a literal perfect being. That's great that you find comfort in cherry picking things out of the bible that make you feel good, but that doesn't mean it's true.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,739
17,277
136
Yes, again this makes sense if you take the bible as a book written by men with morals and knowledge of their time, not if it's written by a literal perfect being. That's great that you find comfort in cherry picking things out of the bible that make you feel good, but that doesn't mean it's true.
It is allegory what is so hard to understand about that? I am glad you find comfort in preaching superiority. You sound a lot like the Bible thumpers who in my opinion are doing it wrong. Now back to making fun of the Bible thumpers please.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
19,750
13,720
136
It is completely pointless to shove bible verses in pro lifer noses. The bible is full of contradictions.
Which are worth pointing out to any religious types who'll listen! The sooner that they feel like they can't bleat on about "abortion is murder", their position weakens considerably.

I would personally bet that >95% of pro-lifers are either religious or "religious adjacent" (e.g. they grew up in a religious household or are otherwise largely influenced by a religious person/group), so if the Bible and its equivalents got kicked out of the abortion debate, it's a lot more likely to turn into a situation where everyone's abortion opinion appears in a spectrum with only a few marginalised crazies at either extreme, rather than a spectrum for pro-choice vs the crazy pro-lifer extremists who scream "child killer!" at everyone who isn't them.

Having said that, I wonder if the only reason why the "abortion debate" still exists in America is purely because the powers that be in the pro-life movement enjoy leading a cult, and rather like the oil industry doing anything to curb progress to clean fuels, these guys don't want to let go of their power.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,859
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Yes I knew this. Asked my evangelical mother about it and her reply was "it wasn't an abortion it was God deciding if the child should live" or some shit. Dance monkey dance.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
14,460
9,313
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There's all sorts of odd stuff in the Bible, especially the Old Testament.

I remember browsing one when staying at my grandparents' as a child (in desperation for reading material as it was that or Readers Digest) and specifically remember it was this bit that really made me conclude that religion is really peculiar


If brothers are living together and one of them dies without a son, his widow must not marry outside the family. Her husband’s brother shall take her and marry her and fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to her.

I'm guessing that as that's an Old Testament thing, it's also part of Jewish tradition? The Old Testament God really liked his peculiar and arbitrary rules.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,859
31,943
136
There's all sorts of odd stuff in the Bible, especially the Old Testament.

I remember browsing one when staying at my grandparents' as a child (in desperation for reading material as it was that or Readers Digest) and specifically remember it was this bit that really made me conclude that religion is really peculiar




I'm guessing that as that's an Old Testament thing, it's also part of Jewish tradition? The Old Testament God really liked his peculiar and arbitrary rules.
IIRC that's the part where God is very concerned about every seed. Every sperm is sacred.
 
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