Yes. Yes I am. And if you'd spent significant time in rural america, listened to the politicians they are consistently electing since the early 90's, and looked at exactly who they just elected, twice, intentionally, you would realize that too. They are not going to consent to seceding from the guy they just worked to elect.No, I am not. Are you saying all the farmers are going to take up arms and kill all the city folk?
I spent twenty years living in a rural Midwest town in one of the reddest states ￣\＿(シ)＿/￣Yes. Yes I am. And if you'd spent significant time in rural america, listened to the politicians they are consistently electing since the early 90's, and looked at exactly who they just elected, twice, intentionally, you would realize that too. They are not going to consent to seceding from the guy they just worked to elect.
What in the world are you even babbling about. You live in some alt-right bubble of denial. Trump didn’t even get 50% of the vote.Every country that falls to authoritarianism grapples with this. It rarely actually halts a military backed coup. Very few coups are performed entirely via mercenaries or outside powers.
As someone who grew up in Eugene, but in a far right household I can tell you now that the cities are ill equipped to handle the kind of people who will subjugate them, should it come to that. And the sooner we realize that the sooner we can get realistic about how to take power back. It won't be by doing some imaginary secession which even if 'successful' would simply create a great power that would quickly overwhelm us. It will be via local community resistance, gumming up the works of every single thing they attempt to accomplish, protecting the vulnerable with our bodies if necessary, and working hard to peel off the moderate edges while training for any physical resistance needed to finish fascism off when we get there.
It's a long, hard slog and it starts with understanding the situation.
Do they? Is that why they are telling the federal DOJ to sue states over the acceptance and counting of mailed in ballots, which falls under state powers and the each state's legislation? Because they know what they are doing?They are showing that they know exactly how things work, actually.
It's clear you didn't do much research:Correct. Blue states have been running to the mythical middle since the election. There will not be any blue states to secede, and if any did they'd be quickly overpowered. The idea of a modern civil war succeeding or a red/blue divide is ridiculous. Blue urban areas can't survive without food which is largely produced in red, rural areas that hate them.
We need to hope the courts block this. If they don't democracy is basically over.
Yes. Yes I am. And if you'd spent significant time in rural america, listened to the politicians they are consistently electing since the early 90's, and looked at exactly who they just elected, twice, intentionally, you would realize that too. They are not going to consent to seceding from the guy they in
It is clear he has no understanding of how quick the red states would collapse without blue states subsidizing them.It's clear you didn't do much research:
Now, guess where the tax dollars that helps substidize those red states come from. (hint: not red states). Take away those tax dollars and those red states won't fair to well.
Even the bluest states run 35-45% red, which includes much of the blue cities. I'm literally not alt right, I was raised in it and moved left as an adult. Spent 18 years as a Dem party leader in the Seattle area, spent the last 10 actively involved in antifascist movements.What in the world are you even babbling about. You live in some alt-right bubble of denial. Trump didn’t even get 50% of the vote.
Ah, you grew up in far right household and have fallen prey to the belief that those of us who grew up in the left don’t have guns or the will to fight. Give me a break. The arrogance. A bunch of fat hillbillies numbering in the thousands will take out the tens of thousands of city folk. Got it. Fuck off.
Who is taking them away? Blue states can't secede. If this country goes full fash, blue states will just be contributing to the economy of the country. Not clear why you keep saying that they can't survive without you, you aren't leaving and if you try they will toss you in the camps. It's what they dream of doing.It's clear you didn't do much research:
Now, guess where the tax dollars that helps substidize those red states come from. (hint: not red states). Take away those tax dollars and those red states won't fair to well.
The problem here is either you are talking ridiculousness or you aren't listening. People keep trying to imagine some sort of blue state secession plan. I'm saying that isn't possible. The blue states can't magically come up with a massively armed and trained populace, put down the 40% of their state plus the cops that sides with the feds while also fighting off the federal government. That's just silliness.It is clear he has no understanding of how quick the red states would collapse without blue states subsidizing them.
Roll eyes. You are such a coward. You forget those who would join the side of the oath to Constitution. Also, this whole discussion was predicated on republicans and federal power trying to remove states rights over voting rights and creating one party rule. I also only ever mentioned blue states discussing secession. Enjoy your Trump butt fuck.you are a feckless coward. I hope you enjoyed your right wing propaganda upbringing. 🫡 YouThe problem here is either you are talking ridiculousness or you aren't listening. People keep trying to imagine some sort of blue state secession plan. I'm saying that isn't possible. The blue states can't magically come up with a massively armed and trained populace, put down the 40% of their state plus the cops that sides with the feds while also fighting off the federal government. That's just silliness.
We could, however, collapse our own economies intentionally. For exactly the reasons you point out. The military can't survive without blue state economies. It would suck but it would be a very effective strategy, among other things. We just have to be willing to suffer.
They can easily survive, we would simply buy the food from somewhere else or outbid you for your food.Correct. Blue states have been running to the mythical middle since the election. There will not be any blue states to secede, and if any did they'd be quickly overpowered. The idea of a modern civil war succeeding or a red/blue divide is ridiculous. Blue urban areas can't survive without food which is largely produced in red, rural areas that hate them.
We need to hope the courts block this. If they don't democracy is basically over.
I find it funny that you only focus on the people in blue states and fail to realize that if something like a blue state succession attempt ever took place that it would include all 50 states as there are blue/red across this country, which means we would have a full blown civil war.The problem here is either you are talking ridiculousness or you aren't listening. People keep trying to imagine some sort of blue state secession plan. I'm saying that isn't possible. The blue states can't magically come up with a massively armed and trained populace, put down the 40% of their state plus the cops that sides with the feds while also fighting off the federal government. That's just silliness.
We could, however, collapse our own economies intentionally. For exactly the reasons you point out. The military can't survive without blue state economies. It would suck but it would be a very effective strategy, among other things. We just have to be willing to suffer.
I find it funny that you only focus on the people in blue states and fail to realize that if something like a blue state succession attempt ever took place that it would include all 50 states as there are blue/red across this country, which means we would have a full blown civil war.
Do you even realize how many states are purple, and how many would actually be blue, if it wasn't for the gerrymandering that happens in many red states to keep them red? You seem to believe that blue states have no loyalists in the armed forces, they wouldn't have the "right" people on their side, that they themselves are not heavily armed, or have access to any military armorments/soldiers. Heck, even if that was true (it's not) The history of this country and it creation shows your argument is faulty, because if your argument was sound, we would have never been able to succeed from Britian as they had the military, the arms, the ships, etc. You underestimate the power of determination and the fight for survival, and that would be what a blue succession would be all about.
In short you are extremely naive and/or ignorant.
Also those red rural areas that supply the food are relying on taxes from those blue urban areas to keep them afloat.Correct. Blue states have been running to the mythical middle since the election. There will not be any blue states to secede, and if any did they'd be quickly overpowered. The idea of a modern civil war succeeding or a red/blue divide is ridiculous. Blue urban areas can't survive without food which is largely produced in red, rural areas that hate them.
We need to hope the courts block this. If they don't democracy is basically over.
Farmers don't "work the land" anymore. Machines and immigrants do.I'm sorry, are you saying that the people in those cities are going to take up arms, kill all the farmers and return to work the land? Because if not they are f'd regardless.
LOL!! we have another one who has no clue. I am a Veteran, and I have a son who is in the military as we speak. Maga in the military is the minority. Stop confusing normal republican's with Maga. You seem to believe the those serving in the military will just blindly follow orders, forget their oath to the constituion and this country and that their allegience is to the Orange con. You and Reflex are just being cowards, believing it's over and giving up, and clearly are out of touch with reality. it's not even remotely close to being over. We are still in the first inning.10 years of MAGA and some of you are still clueless as to what is going on, what has happened.
Is LEO/military ALL maga? No. Is it MOSTLY maga? Yes. And top military leadership is being replaced everyday by loyalists. And did you see who was appointed to the advisory committee at Westpoint? What do you think the military is going to look like in 5 years? 10?
@Reflex is the only one facing reality in this thread. Forget 2026, 2028 (Vance won't certify anyway). Join the rest of us in reality. Hint: it's over.
What they don't get is that Red Dawn was a movie. A civil war would be over in weeks at most. The federal government and it's resources are under control of fascists for whom cruelty was the point. In Germany in the 30's the Nazis never had majority support, the left was not unified and did not have a spine. Same here where a huge chunk of the left is busy bargaining with fascists as though any deals they sign are worth the paper they are written on.10 years of MAGA and some of you are still clueless as to what is going on, what has happened.
Is LEO/military ALL maga? No. Is it MOSTLY maga? Yes. And top military leadership is being replaced everyday by loyalists. And did you see who was appointed to the advisory committee at Westpoint? What do you think the military is going to look like in 5 years? 10?
@Reflex is the only one facing reality in this thread. Forget 2026, 2028 (Vance won't certify anyway). Join the rest of us in reality. Hint: it's over.
A bill before a Georgia Senate committee Wednesday could allow a Donald Trump-aligned state board to strike thousands of challenged voters from the state’s rolls and would require polling officials to count the number of ballots by hand.[./quote]
You are so fucking ignorant. You have the misguided thought that our military/LEO is filled with mindless drones who can't think for themselves and warship the orange con. To the point that you are bringing up a fictitious movie from 39 years ago, not counting the remake. Seriously, it's time for YOU to stfu, as you have proven you are out of touch with reality, which is why you are now using fiction to try and support your argument. You don't even reconize how stupid your "answer" is where you say if the courts can't hold the line, which this administration is already ignoring the courts, is to have general strikes and such that will cripple the economy, and glog up the courts. Which will be playing right into what this administration end game is, destroy the economy, destroy people's ability to live, so they can get a tighter thumb on us all, and most of us lose everything. I am curious, how can clogging up the courts help if the courts aren't able to hold the line and Trump just flat out ignores every court order? It took a world war to stop hitler, yet you somehow think clogging up the courts, and general strikes will stop Trump. Seriously? Get in touch with reality, maybe open up some history books instead of fictious movies. One that is so far off of what we are talking about that had nothing to do with a civil war, a revolution, or a internal take over from a fascist government, but everything to do with a surprise attack from another country.What they don't get is that Red Dawn was a movie. A civil war would be over in weeks at most. The federal government and it's resources are under control of fascists for whom cruelty was the point. In Germany in the 30's the Nazis never had majority support, the left was not unified and did not have a spine. Same here where a huge chunk of the left is busy bargaining with fascists as though any deals they sign are worth the paper they are written on.
It is possible the courts hold the line for us, and we do not need to rely on a bunch of shit libs who sloganeer. However if they don't we need to think asymmetrically. General strikes, cripple the economy, clog the courts with challenges until they abolish the courts. Everything we can do that incites fascists to clamp down harder hastens the end as fascism always builds it's own resistance and consumes itself.
Btw, if you all are serious about armed resistance, join your local Socialist Rifle Association immediately. If you are just cosplaying on forums, stfu.
LOL!! we have another one who has no clue. I am a Veteran, and I have a son who is in the military as we speak. Maga in the military is the minority. Stop confusing normal republican's with Maga. You seem to believe the those serving in the military will just blindly follow orders, forget their oath to the constituion and this country and that their allegience is to the Orange con. You and Reflex are just being cowards, believing it's over and giving up, and clearly are out of touch with reality. it's not even remotely close to being over. We are still in the first inning.
Tell us you have never served in the US military without telling us you have never served in the US military. If you had, you would know and understand the oath every military member gave to the constitution, this country and it's citizens. The change in leadership doesn't change that oath, or the fact that the majority would refuse to obey the unlawful order to turn on the citizens of this country. Nealry the entire military would have to be fully replaced with like minded people, before your expectation to happen. Because what your "vision" would require people who are willing to turn on and possibly kill, their friends, family, etc.. and have allegiant to Trump/Maga and not the constitution, this country, and it's citizens.Your n=2 is not convincing.
And does nothing to address the changing military leadership happening daily.
You might have a point, today. But not after a few years of them totally reshaping the military in their image.