Can't be a C/O (conscientious objector)? Just because something is lawful does not make it moral. Plenty of lawful orders have resulted in mass murder or genocide.I am a vet. If there was a declaration of war and I was active military I cannot honestly say what i would do but would probably follow lawful orders. If just Executive branch action I would refuse as it violates my oath to constitution.
Easy to say from the couch. Much more difficult when you are actively serving. If congress declares war and the president executes an invasion than those are lawful orders. My personal Morality is not the same as following the oath to constitution. I may personally believe the invasion is unjustified but it is lawful per the constitution.Can't be a C/O (conscientious objector)? Just because something is lawful does not make it moral. Plenty of lawful orders have resulted in mass murder or genocide.
Even in this scenario - what would be the moral basis for attacking Greenland? Even if Congress declared war - lawfully- there has been no provocation for military action. Other than cheeto's fantasies. So why support those unjustified actions with your life and the taking of others?
It is easy to say from the couch. But better to practice saying it from the couch than when shit hits the fan.Easy to say from the couch. Much more difficult when you are actively serving. If congress declares war and the president executes an invasion than those are lawful orders. My personal Morality is not the same as following the oath to constitution. I may personally believe the invasion is unjustified but it is lawful per the constitution.
As soon as my command gave an order I felt did violate my oath such as attacking civilians it would trigger my objection but being disappeared for disobeying orders under Trumpolini is scary. I can guarantee suckers and losers disobeying Trump would be disappeared.
Agree to disagree. So easy from the couch. Go serve and then make that call in real time. Congress could declare monkeys are a unicorn zombie. That has shit all to do with them declaring war on Greenland. That is a lawful action. It is not an easy thing to refuse lawful orders just because you disagree with them.It is easy to say from the couch. But better to practice saying it from the couch than when shit hits the fan.
Back when Trump assassinated the Iranian general, i was legit scared he'd institute the draft and call for war. My first thought was "there's no way I'm dying for that fat fucker" and i stand by that.
Dont forget your oath is to *defend* the Constitution against *enemies* both foreign *and* *domestic*.
What threat does Greenland pose? Why is it an enemy?
Because i promise you, Greenland is not our enemy even if Congress declared it. The same way Congress could declare the value of Pi is 3 and they'd still be wrong.
Im not disagreeing with your assessment that it's easy from the couch.Agree to disagree. So easy from the couch. Go serve and then make that call in real time. Congress could declare monkeys are a unicorn zombie. That has shit all to do with them declaring war on Greenland. That is a lawful action. It is not an easy thing to refuse lawful orders just because you disagree with them.
Lol I’m surprised at a few of these yes votesSo far a very rare area of bipartisan agreement.
Give me a break. You chose to ignore where I said I would refuse orders that violated my oath like attacking civilians. Don’t you dare try to equate my honest conflict with soldiers gassing Jews. That is an obvious unlawful order. Nice strawman though.Im not disagreeing with your assessment that it's easy from the couch.
I'm saying you have a moral obligation to not follow immoral orders, and because of your position, you should be mentally preparing yourself to make the affirmative moral choice moreso than the rest of us keyboard warriors.
Because Nazis gassing Jews followed lawful orders. And given this Congress and administration, you might very well find yourself in a similar moral position. All i can do is wish for you to have the moral courage to do what is right.
This. Also, with Trump as the leader I think you disappearing is more likely than Leavenworth. It is not an easy thing when serving to abandon your brothers and sisters even when it is the right thing to do personally.Without congressional approval? Illegal order, generals should not follow. With approval? Legal order, should not be followed morally, one has to ask whether they're willing to break rocks in Leavenworth instead of murdering Greenlanders.
That is the question. How soon before the orange monkey replaces enough generals to make his dictatorship a reality?Without congressional approval? Illegal order, generals should not follow. With approval? Legal order, should not be followed morally, one has to ask whether they're willing to break rocks in Leavenworth instead of murdering Greenlanders.
I'm trying to say the gulf between "Congress declares war to legally invade Greenland to satisfy Trump's ego" and "Nazis gas Jews" is not as wide as one might hope.Give me a break. You chose to ignore where I said I would refuse orders that violated my oath like attacking civilians. Don’t you dare try to equate my honest conflict with soldiers gassing Jews. That is an obvious unlawful order. Nice strawman though.
Greenland itself is not a member of NATO, but it is part of the Kingdom of Denmark, which is a founding member of NATO. Therefore, Greenland is indirectly included in NATO's security framework through Denmark. An attack on any NATO country requires a response from the rest of NATO.Who would they attack?
Greenland has no military, so either it is simply occupation and annexation against their will or they could attack the Danish military present in Greenland.
Maybe Denmark would activate article 5 in the NATO agreement.
Damnit i was just about to post this!!Would the US then be obliged to attack itself?