An alternative approach to the "my OS soon won't be supported any more" problem?

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
19,750
13,717
136
With regard to Win10 soon not being supported any more, most of the time I present customers with "older" computers with 3 - 4 options:

1 - do nothing: I explain the downside of this approach mainly with regard to the security implications.
2 - an "unsupported PC" upgrade to Windows 11: I explain how I will need to visit every other year to feed the computer a feature update to allow it to continue getting updates, as well as the theoretical possibility that a future Win11 update that hasn't been designed very well and assumes specs compliance could be problematic.
3 - replace the computer.

The alternative approach, background first: I have a customer with a Win7 PC I built back in 2011-ish (Core i7-870), upgraded to include an SSD several years ago. The customer is retired but has SolidWorks (2011 I think?) installed, a 3D design/rendering program for architectural purposes I believe and comes with a hefty price tag that has now become a hefty rental price tag. It's reputed to be not compatible with Win10 IIRC. Any act that involves reinstalling SolidWorks carries a risk of having to contact the software maker and reactivate a no-longer-supported product. The customer still uses it from time to time and would prefer to avoid the licencing of a new version. We've discussed various options such as having a new computer alongside the old one, nothing is decided yet.

Something that occurred to me this morning is IMO a bit of a perverse configuration, but my idea is to furnish his PC with enough RAM and install a virtual machine with Win7 as the host, and inside the virtual machine he runs the higher-risk apps (or newer version apps that won't run on Win7) such as a web browser, e-mail program, etc. I call it perverse because my usual view is that while the highest profile target for security compromises is the web browser, a full system compromise might start with user level privs achieved from a web browser exploit followed by OS exploits to escalate privs, and the VM would still be running on top of a less secure OS (the perverse bit), in a way it's kind of more secure than say a new PC running say Win11? Yes, I have heard of VM exploits to gain host privs but it's safe to say that the likelihood of such an exploit is somewhat lower than exploits designed with a single OS in mind.

Such a setup would have a couple of usability points knocked off unless the linkage was virtually seamless so that when guest OS app saves to the Documents folder that it ends up in host OS's user's Documents folder, all perfectly possible I would guess, but surely some things are going to be harder. Provision of a new printer would need to happen in both environments I guess.

Thoughts?
 
Last edited:

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
58,900
9,239
126
I guess there's a reason linux isn't an option? Using linux as a daily driver in some form, and keeping win7 unnetworked, and only for solidworks opens up several possibilities.

edit:
changed windows to the correct version. I think... I'm not clear on what windows the guy has, but it doesn't matter. The gist is use a supported linux and a locked down windows, whatever the version.
 
Last edited:

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
19,750
13,717
136
Yup, I didn't specify the guest OS because it easily could be Linux.

Can the host OS can be un-networked while giving the guest network access?
 

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
Moderator
Dec 11, 1999
16,523
4,390
75
Such a setup would have a couple of usability points knocked off unless the linkage was virtually seamless so that when guest OS app saves to the Documents folder that it ends up in host OS's user's Documents folder
I think this is a bad idea. The user saves a .pdf.exe file, the Linux browser doesn't virus scan the file, and the host OS won't have updated virus definitions either. Maybe you could set up ClamAV to scan all downloaded files somehow, but I think it would be a significant undertaking to make it user-friendly.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
19,750
13,717
136
I think this is a bad idea. The user saves a .pdf.exe file, the Linux browser doesn't virus scan the file, and the host OS won't have updated virus definitions either. Maybe you could set up ClamAV to scan all downloaded files somehow, but I think it would be a significant undertaking to make it user-friendly.
The Linux OS wouldn't be able to execute the virus, which reduces the possibility of the user doing something impulsively, and if/when that file is saved as an object in the host's Windows filesystem, any normally-configured AV product would scan it, and again if the user ever attempts to read/run it.

In terms of when the file gets scanned, it's literally no different to if it was a single Windows OS environment.

The only exception I can think of would be if if the user was running Wine in the Linux guest (and if the downloaded file was only stored in the guest OS filesystem), but aside from "why on earth would they do that", the efficacy of a particular Windows malware in Wine is probably highly variable.
 
Last edited:

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
58,900
9,239
126
I prefer dual booting. Image his windows and put it somewhere safe, gut it so it can't be used with networking at all, then install a linux to use as a daily driver.

Why? People are lazy, and he'll want to use windows for everything. After all, he's already there, and a little web use won't hurt, right? I'm also guessing solidworks isn't a daily use program. With SSDs, windows can booted up fast to use solidworks, then back to linux for routine stuff. That also gives you a clean copy of his windows setup to install in the future.

Your concept /may/ work, but I don't know how to set it up, and there's more moving parts to maintain and possibly break on someone who may not be particularly tech savvy.

edit:
an alternative would be a gutted windows, and a Pi based computer with a switch between them to share hardware. Doesn't use much power to leave running, and might be powerful enough as a daily driver. Depends on the client.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: Ken g6

WilliamM2

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2012
2,807
791
136
I'd feel bad charging a customer money to keep a 14-15 year old computer running, that has a value of maybe $40-$50 dollars (if you could even find a buyer).

The obvious answer is a new PC. If SolidWorks doesn't activate, keep using it on the old machine, disconnected from the internet.
 
Reactions: igor_kavinski
Jul 27, 2020
23,498
16,524
146
Ummm...Win7 host OS on a Core i7-870 running Win11 in VirtualBox or VMplayer? Is that even possible with current versions of both of those? If not, will the older versions be able to run Win11 as guest OS? Is the i7-870 itself fast enough to be able to run a modern OS inside a VM?

Have to agree with WilliamM2. Either keep the old PC around for SolidWorks or use some cloning software with dissimilar hardware restore to get the Windows 7 installation working on a Ryzen 5000 series PC (the last AMD CPU that Windows 7 will support).

https://trackerninja.codeberg.page/...rig-based-upon-ryzen-5950x-running-windows-7/

Using dissimilar hardware restore should ensure that the SolidWorks installation is not lost, unless it has some copy-protection routines to detect change of CPU/mobo etc.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
19,750
13,717
136
Ummm...Win7 host OS on a Core i7-870 running Win11 in VirtualBox or VMplayer? Is that even possible with current versions of both of those? If not, will the older versions be able to run Win11 as guest OS? Is the i7-870 itself fast enough to be able to run a modern OS inside a VM?

That's a whole lot of doubts based on nothing! Why wouldn't any of that be possible?

I was running VirtualBox on Win7 before I moved to Linux, it's how I did most of the tests I wanted to do before the migration.

The generation before the 870 could do virtualisation. I've got Win11 running on AM3 pre-UEFI too.

Re: Bare-metal restore - what happens to a Windows activation if that's used? What happens to a SW activation? The same goes for trying to reactivate SW on a new PC, it would likely have to be deactivated on the old one then what if it doesn't reactivate on either.

All of this is academic anyway, I expressed the idea because I thought it was potentially interesting and sometimes the traditional approaches have to be turned on their heads because otherwise we get set in our ways. The customer is likely to kick the can as far down the road as they can, and they've expressed a preference for having a second PC alongside the old one. Virtualisation is an alien concept to most if not all of my customers, and maybe as something as simple as running a web browser in the guest OS with graphics hardware acceleration is a bit much for the fairly ancient Quadro graphics card in this machine
 
Reactions: lxskllr
Jul 27, 2020
23,498
16,524
146
That's a whole lot of doubts based on nothing! Why wouldn't any of that be possible?
I was just wondering because both of those programs may have been discontinued for Win7 before Win11 came around so do they even have the patches needed for running Win11 bug free? Does Win11 even show in the list of supported OSes in the last version of both softwares released for Win7? That's what I was thinking.

Regarding activation, I guess the only way to find out is to try it. Keep the old PC disconnected from internet in case the activation fails so it can be used as fallback and never used on the internet again.
 

WilliamM2

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2012
2,807
791
136
I thought he was running Win10, and he was worried about end of support in Oct.?
If he's running Win7, why the sudden concern now? It hasn't been supported for 5 years already.
 
Reactions: igor_kavinski

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
19,750
13,717
136
There was an opportunity to upgrade to Windows 10 when the hard drive was showing signs of failing, but while he was concerned about the end of support for Windows 7, he was more concerned about SW continuing to work.

Virtualbox 8 lists Win7 in its system requirements.

I just noticed a typo in the OP suggesting that the customer was already running Win11
 
Reactions: igor_kavinski

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
19,750
13,717
136
Can't find Virtual Box 8. I think typo again
Yup. Surprisingly difficult information to find! I found sysreqs for VB6 not 7.

The last version of VB6.1 installs on Win7 and starts up OK. VB7.1 doesn't (even after getting around the "unsigned network driver" issue, the main vb exe crashes when I start it).
 
Last edited:
Reactions: igor_kavinski
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |