Discussion the Death of the Desktop CPU

fastandfurious6 · Monday at 5:05 PM

Discuss

MangoX · Monday at 5:15 PM

No why? The 9955HX is just a higher binned processor that AMD can sell for higher margins. And in the end, it's not outclassed desktop parts.

gdansk · Monday at 5:20 PM

100W Granite Ridge performs slightly worse than a 200W Granite Ridge. Mind-blowing.

fastandfurious6 · Monday at 5:24 PM

MangoX said:
not outclassed desktop parts

there are no "desktop parts" anymore... it's the same CPU and difference is very marginal

gdansk said:
100W Granite Ridge performs slightly worse than a 200W Granite Ridge. Mind-blowing.

exactly. but some will go to great lengths defending how "superior desktop CPUs are", they don't realize it's the same

gdansk · Monday at 5:27 PM

fastandfurious6 said:
exactly. but some will go to great lengths defending how "superior desktop CPUs are", they don't realize it's the same

The part itself might be the same. But the products are quite different. Most desktops are a modular platform. Flaming hot laptops are loud, have less battery life than my desktop* and are seldom modular. That's about 100 times less desirable to me, personally. Laptops are supposed to be portable and quiet.

* Yes, that's right - it doesn't have to be portable so it has a rack-sized battery.

Markfw · Monday at 5:37 PM

fastandfurious6 said:
there are no "desktop parts" anymore... it's the same CPU and difference is very marginal

exactly. but some will go to great lengths defending how "superior desktop CPUs are", they don't realize it's the same

First, it IS a desktop part. All server CPUs are generally (not always) 32 cores or more. When licensing is based on core counts or other reasons, some may get lower core counts, but thats the exception. The main difference IMO is memory channels. desktop are 2 or 4 channel. The oldest servers in the last 10 years have a minimum of 8 channels. and AMD has 12 channels in Genoa and Turin. That and due to that memory capacity. recent workstation like threadripper are 4 or 8 channel(I have lost track) and laptop are 2 channel for the most part.

So core count, memory channels and memory capacity are clearly different in server and desktop. What part are you saying are dying ?

CouncilorIrissa · Monday at 5:44 PM

fastandfurious6 said:
View attachment 121034

Discuss

those are quite literally the same part binned differently. Not sure what your point is.

Mopetar · Monday at 6:34 PM

This isn't surprising. Zen has never scaled particularly well at higher power. Intel wasn't selling 200W+ behemoths because it wanted eXtReMe DeSkToP performance, but because that's what it had to do to remain competitive, just like when Bulldozer CPUs were guzzling watts to eke out that last pixel of bar chart length.

So the desktop part can take more power, but you won't get much for it. I’ll bet you could drop the power by another 25W without losing much performance. That's just how Zen performs.

Really the only thing AMD could do to offer more of a desktop part would be to make a 32-core (or even just a 24-core) desktop CPU that uses the additional power on more cores as opposed to diminishing clock speeds. Of course the people who benefit from this added cores will get even more from 64 cores and AMD has a HEDT platform for those customers.

I'd also argue that the X3D line is now the premium desktop part. For gaming it will offer better frame rates on most titles and for a select few is a better upgrade than spending substantially more on a top-end GPU. I guess there's nothing stopping AMD from putting one of those in a laptop, but maybe there's nothing stopping as much demand.

aigomorla · Tuesday at 6:38 AM

fastandfurious6 said:
there are no "desktop parts" anymore... it's the same CPU and difference is very marginal

let me take you back to memory lane and remind you how the Intel Core was brought about.

It started out as a Yonah, which was the mobile variant that morphed into Merom because Intel realized us Overclockers were putting Yonah on special boards with massive heat sinks, and spanking AMD X2 upside silly in SuperPI by several magnitudes.

Note AMD had performance crown back then too with the X2, (manchester) because intel thought the Smithfield / Prescott made good space heaters and people would enjoy that more then actual compute.

But Yonah changed Intel to dominance with Merom, to Conroe, and well, you know the history after that.

I had my hands on a Yonah, and man, those were the fun days.
When intel actually cared and listened to Tuners / Overclockers, and always tried to give us that little extra bit more.
That was then they had that famous video and Motto

"Overclocking so Easy, your Grandmother can do it".

Now i look at my 7960X Threadripper, and im like why do i need to change 5 sets of voltage for 1 stupid thing, and why is my voltages not sticking. Why do i even need to tune PBO and SOC and Infinity what?

dacostafilipe · Tuesday at 8:24 AM

fastandfurious6 said:
there are no "desktop parts" anymore... it's the same CPU and difference is very marginal

there are no "mobile parts" anymore... it's the same CPU and difference is very marginal

mikeymikec · Tuesday at 8:50 AM

Who would have thought that a thread titled "the death of the desktop CPU" would turn out to be unsubstantiated alarmism.

fastandfurious6 · Tuesday at 9:29 AM

aigomorla said:
us Overclockers were putting Yonah on special boards with massive heat sinks

that's not mobile anymore, far from it. special case of good mobile CPU able to turn into desktop

mikeymikec said:
Who would have thought that a thread titled "the death of the desktop CPU" would turn out to be unsubstantiated alarmism.

how can you not see?

fastandfurious6 · Tuesday at 9:31 AM

although it already has happened it's still not understood... maybe I made this thread 2 years early

I'll revive it in 2027

igor_kavinski · Tuesday at 9:32 AM

I can see the point of the OP. The performance is wayy closer than a mobile CPU has any right to be but if we go by that metric, desktop CPUs died when the Apple M1 hit the market. It can easily beat a 12700K in some benchmarks while consuming only a fraction of the power. Hope the x86 camp will come up with something like that soon so us enthusiasts can get dual or even quad socket workstations with those tiny wattage CPUs that perform like desktop CPUs.

That "should" be fun

And before anyone complains about that being cost prohibitive, imagine a world where those tiny CPUs are mass produced inexpensively and there are just soo many of them that Intel and AMD are forced to make dual socket and quad socket consumer mobos because how else are they gonna sell the excess CPUs???

(I forbid you to try to kick me out of my sweet dream world)

Markfw · Tuesday at 10:31 AM

fastandfurious6 said:
although it already has happened it's still not understood... maybe I made this thread 2 years early

I'll revive it in 2027

I don't think you read my post.

Edit: After reading some of the posts as of late, are you talking about laptop to desktop references ? If so I think the title is a little off.

fastandfurious6 · Tuesday at 10:41 AM

Markfw said:
I don't think you read my post.

Edit: After reading some of the posts as of late, are you talking about laptop to desktop references ? If so I think the title is a little off.

you spoke about server, server will remain indefinitely until quantum becomes viable or something similar. workstation i.e. threadripper will also remain

but plain client desktop won't have a place anymore

Schmide · Tuesday at 10:55 AM

The point of a desktop is to provide a framework for everything you want to put in it, or out of it in the case of peripherals.

A mac, small form factor pc, or laptop isn't going to lend itself to such a task. Yeah you can get oculink/thunderbolt docs but that costs. Many don't realize the extra cost macs push on peripherals and they're already a pricey platform. (cough cough firewire)

And cooling. AIOs are commonplace in most builds not only for performance but acoustic qualities. You just don't get that in lesser chassis.

Remember there are no bad products just bad prices. The extra cost of such niche products will most certainly disqualify them from a market takeover.

igor_kavinski · Tuesday at 11:06 AM

Schmide said:
And cooling. AIOs are commonplace in most builds not only for performance but acoustic qualities. You just don't get that in lesser chassis.

Yup. Mobile form factors are at a huge disadvantage with regards to cooling. I saw a Youtube video where the performance of a laptop CPU increased a lot after a 1KG heatsink was slapped onto it. Until and unless excellent and portable liquid cooling becomes commonplace, this is one area where the desktop can't be beat. With a mobile form factor, you get stuck in the Apple dilemma of "every machine of the same model performs the same" so there goes all the excitement from trying to squeeze more performance from your investment.

I got great happiness from my 245KF tweaking when it beat Techpowerup's tested 14900K in some benchmarks. Would not have been able to do that if mine were a mini PC. And that's another thing. I can buy a really cool RAM kit a few years from now and push my 245KF even faster in multicore. Mobile platforms have none of that flexibility.

Hail The Brain Slug · Tuesday at 11:26 AM

The notebookcheck preview video confirms the laptop they previewed was running the 9955HX at 150 watts. This is a nothing burger, its a desktop part put in a laptop run at desktop power levels - of course its going to perform similarly to an actual desktop.

You can see under load all the temp figures in hwinfo are red. Even with direct die cooling, laptops cant keep these chips as cool as a standard desktop with an IHS in the way.

If you think this is some kind of advancement for laptops, I disagree. Its solely desktop replacement, hair dryer loudness laptop territory.

WelshBloke · Tuesday at 11:37 AM

igor_kavinski said:
I can see the point of the OP. The performance is wayy closer than a mobile CPU has any right to be but if we go by that metric, desktop CPUs died when the Apple M1 hit the market. It can easily beat a 12700K in some benchmarks while consuming only a fraction of the power.

Benchmarks don't show everything hence my geekbench results below!

That is my phone beating my desktop! (Yeah I know)

igor_kavinski · Tuesday at 11:48 AM

WelshBloke said:
That is my phone beating my desktop! (Yeah I know)

Now make your phone work in Windows

WelshBloke · Tuesday at 11:51 AM

igor_kavinski said:
Now make your phone work in Windows

Ewwwww! I'm actually getting around to my desktop using Linux as well as my phone!

Nothingness · Tuesday at 12:01 PM

WelshBloke said:
Benchmarks don't show everything hence my geekbench results below!

View attachment 121075
That is my phone beating my desktop! (Yeah I know)

Now put the Arm chip in your desktop and vice versa. This reminds me of people who were saying the Apple CPUs were only good for smartphones. Apples, oranges.

That said I don't really understand the issue discussed here. Do people really run demanding games on laptops? Do desktop replacement laptops really make a sense when you have to suffer noise, heat and lack of battery life? I remember trying to play World of Warcraft on a laptop 15 years ago, this vaccinated me (and that never was a demanding game).

PS - Your desktop still is much better for MT tasks (and without even taking into account that GB6 MT is to be considered with a huge grain of salt): https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/compare/11137376?baseline=11118647

igor_kavinski · Tuesday at 12:09 PM

Nothingness said:
That said I don't really understand the issue discussed here. Do people really run demanding games on laptops? Do desktop replacement laptops really make a sense when you have to suffer noise, heat and lack of battery life? I remember trying to play World of Warcraft on a laptop 15 years ago, this vaccinated me (and that never was a demanding game).

Headphones, Bro. Headphones

Markfw · Tuesday at 12:11 PM

fastandfurious6 said:
you spoke about server, server will remain indefinitely until quantum becomes viable or something similar. workstation i.e. threadripper will also remain

but plain client desktop won't have a place anymore

At my sons work, and many other businesses, they don't have workstations, but they do have 2 or 3 monitors hooked up. Only a dgpu and a sizeable one, and only in a desktop can you find this.

There are many other cases also. Desktop is not going away anytime soon.

edit: To clarify, my opinion.

Laptops are great for mobile computing devices where sustained computing requirements and very heavy computing tasks are not required.

Desktops are great for everything that does not require mobility, or server type usage (64 cores or more) or really high memory usage or bandwidth.

Discussion the Death of the Desktop CPU

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