Discussion Nvidia Blackwell in Q1-2025

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TESKATLIPOKA

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leoneazzurro

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Price/performance wise, the laptop 5080 seems to be a good compromise. As fast or faster than the 4090, and with DLSS4 on top of it. And cheaper. The increase in cost for a 5090 IMHO is not worth for a few FPS difference and 8Gbytes of RAM that could be good when the baseline is 8 or12, but when you have 16 already it seems overkill, if you don't connect your laptop to an external 4K screen all the time. TDP seems to be the limiting factor in this case.
 

gorobei

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Jan 7, 2007
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RTX 5070 = gtx 950 in the product stack if comparing cuda cores, says GN. GPU shrinkflation.

i was just about to post the video.

GN is using cuda unit count normalized to largest/flagship gpu relative to price adjusted to inflation. while it is an ok measure, die size should probably be added.

any asic maker has a choice on die size vs yield per wafer. any of the wafer/die calculators can demonstrate the math. after fabbing, the dies get binned for performance/temp/power. then marketing creates model numbers/segments to set prices. but regardless of what name marketing slaps on the product it is only ever going to be one of some number of die sizes that you can usually count on one hand. adding a lower model for the dies without 100% of the compute units/clusters for a lower price is part of the process.

when it was consumer flagship parts getting harvested to go to professional/research skus the die size scheme was consistent enough. when ai/render/compute server products took over the largest die size the xx50/xx60/xx70/xx80 segmentation started to fall apart.

the true generational performance gains come out of process node size shrinks. the non shrink product cycles are all minor tweaks and software features. because nv had no competition from amd and crypto/covid/ai scarcity drove up pricing, people have not been rationally evaluating the parts and branding. the 2080/2070/2060 were the same die, with the gtx 1660 taking the place of what a historical 2060 segment/die size would have been. the 3070 was the next die size down from the 3080 rather than being a cut down 3080. but these model numbering shuffles were used to price them at the next tier up.

die size is the the biggest tell for a product cycle. you are either getting the biggest die/biggest die with flaw, 2nd biggest die/die with flaw, 3rd biggest, etc.
nv has used ti/super/whatever to obscure the fact you were paying more for what would have been called the next segment down historically. but no one cared when we pointed this out. now it is another non-shrink product cycle and nv hubris pricing is when people sort of noticed. if it werent for lack of supply, plenty of consumers would have happily bought the 5000 series at release.

moore's law is slowing and new node prices are going up, but not enough to justify the 5000 series pricing given it is on the same node as the 4000 series.
 
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TESKATLIPOKA

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NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5060 Ti series rumored to match RTX 4060 Ti pricing
It's just a rumor, but If Nvidia will really keep the same prices as the original, then 5060Ti would be a pretty bad offer.
5060Ti 16GB costing $499 would be only $50 cheaper than 5070 12GB, so bad perf/$, pretty much DOA.
5060Ti 8GB costing $399 would be totally DOA, too much for an 8GB card and I don't think N44 16GB would cost more.
 
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blckgrffn

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www.teamjuchems.com
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5060 Ti series rumored to match RTX 4060 Ti pricing
It's just a rumor, but If Nvidia will really keep the same prices as the original, then 5060Ti would be a pretty bad offer.
5060Ti 16GB costing $499 would be only $50 cheaper than 5070 12GB, so bad perf/$, pretty much DOA.
5060Ti 8GB costing $399 would be totally DOA, too much for an 8GB card and I don't think N44 16GB would cost more.

I would wager a lot that these are mainly for pre-builts, and they don't care so long as numbers go up - model numbers, that is.

And it doesn't change the fact that the 5060Ti 16GB is still the "worth buying" SKU of two and that if you wanted a 5060 Ti 8GB there are 3070/3070 Tis all over second hand markets right now for $300 or less. Unless you need the efficiency they'll both run out of vram before they hit the GPU wall in most titles.
 
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TESKATLIPOKA

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I would wager a lot that these are mainly for pre-builts, and they don't care so long as numbers go up - model numbers, that is.

And it doesn't change the fact that the 5060Ti 16GB is still the "worth buying" SKU of two and that if you wanted a 5060 Ti 8GB there are 3070/3070 Tis all over second hand markets right now for $300 or less. Unless you need the efficiency they'll both run out of vram before they hit the GPU wall in most titles.
Yeas, the 8GB version is a bad choice, 16GB is better but still expensive.
If AMD won't be that greedy, meaning $399 max for 9060XT 16GB, then It would be a better option in comparison.
Within 2 weeks we will know the actual price.
 
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reb0rn

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Dec 31, 2009
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Most ppl buy 8GB version those card are not for ultra/high details, those ppl mostly play all at stock settings in game, but i do think NV will drop prices due huge FUD against it and aggressive AMD pricing
 
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TESKATLIPOKA

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Most ppl buy 8GB version those card are not for ultra/high details, those ppl mostly play all at stock settings in game, but i do think NV will drop prices due huge FUD against it and aggressive AMD pricing
Are not for ultra/high details? I beg to differ.
5060Ti 16GB should have RTX 4070 level of performance in my opinion.
You can play easily at Ultra 1440p with these cards.
Only a game like Black Myth Wukong and Silent Hill 2 won't give you >60FPS even at reduced 1080p according to TPU.
That's not a bad performance at all.
 

basix

Member
Oct 4, 2024
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Something akin to OptiScaler but for PhysX would be nice. All PhysX Games for all GPUs (also RTX 50 )

Edit:
Regarding "separate/secondary GPU", we could now also use the IGP for PhysX acceleration
 
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Golgatha

Lifer
Jul 18, 2003
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Now some enterprising hackers can get to work making PhysX work on any GPU or perhaps optimize the CPU code to use AVX-512 so that it doesn't even need a separate GPU anymore.
From what I've read, making PhysX multi-CPU-threaded would go a long way towards fixing performance issues. We have plenty of unused CPU cores to throw at this problem.
 
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CP5670

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Jun 24, 2004
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I was looking at upgrading to a 77" LG G4 with the newer MLA panel. It's amazing that it's actually cheaper than a 5090 despite being a much, much bigger upgrade.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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I was looking at upgrading to a 77" LG G4 with the newer MLA panel. It's amazing that it's actually cheaper than a 5090 despite being a much, much bigger upgrade.
Wait till LG puts an Nvidia AI chip inside the TV and apps running on the TV can use it for something useful.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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Am I the only person who doesn't want apps on my TV? I want a dumb screen that I can plug other devices into, which may or may not have apps on them.

There certainly are arguments to be made for including some kind of sophisticated chip that allows the television to upscale images or produce a better looking image from a low resolution source by cleaning up artifacts, but TV apps are already worthless as is. An Nvidia AI chip won't make them any better.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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An Nvidia AI chip won't make them any better.
No but since when do those having a preference for Nvidia actually go around looking with a microscope to find faults? LG wants to sell more expensive "gaming optimized" TVs? They can do worse than include a worthless Nvidia chip in it and they have their first TV model being scalped.
 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
18,077
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Am I the only person who doesn't want apps on my TV? I want a dumb screen that I can plug other devices into, which may or may not have apps on them.

There certainly are arguments to be made for including some kind of sophisticated chip that allows the television to upscale images or produce a better looking image from a low resolution source by cleaning up artifacts, but TV apps are already worthless as is. An Nvidia AI chip won't make them any better.
You don't have to use the tv apps. I find that some tv apps work better than the ones my Apple tv 4k has. Tv apps are ok until they are not. That takes years though.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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I view it like all of the pre-installed software that comes on PCs. I don't want it there at all and the time spent removing it shouldn't have to be wasted in the first place.
 
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CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
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I never use the apps or agree to any of their privacy notices, but don't mind having them there either. The PC can be used for all video streaming.
 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
18,077
895
126
I view it like all of the pre-installed software that comes on PCs. I don't want it there at all and the time spent removing it shouldn't have to be wasted in the first place.
You definitely are in the minority. Most people love them until they start to have issues.
 
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