Will this national ordeal we are going through be over when the Fat Man swings?

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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,879
8,973
136
This is what thought and imagination does. This reminds me to the man who was so self tortured by all the scenarios of possible future misery he bricked himself up in a cave and dies of suffocation.
When Nazis say it is time to go rounding people up. I am going to agree with them - just not in a manner to their liking.
I find it would be rather difficult to do that while alone in a cave.
What we need is a pack of wolves. For there is flesh that needs rending.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,970
6,581
126
I understand. I agree that perpetual wallowing in emotional misery at the horrors of the world helps no one, least of all one's self. At the same time I don't believe feeling sadness or anger are inherently bad. Knowing that a man who fled his country in fear for his life and sought asylum in the US is now in an El Salvador prison locked up with the very gang members he ran from, only because we have a number of racists and sadists running our government, I cannot help but feel anger and sadness. People who aren't capable of feeling anything about that are broken.

I'm a middle-aged white male with a house and a good job. No one is coming after me. I could easily shut off part of myself, disregard what's happening in this country, tell myself this doesn't affect me and none of this matters, like Greenman does. Sure, I'm going to pay more for everything, but technically I can afford it. Other people are not so lucky, but I'm not them. On our current trajectory, I'm probably not going to retire before I'm much closer to death than I expected to be. But a fuckton of people are going to die a lot sooner than me, a lot younger than me, at a much higher rate than we would have calculated back in October because of what the US government is doing. And I could feel nothing about that.

But I won't. I'll express my anger and sadness, because I'm a human being, not an avatar or a monk. I will endeavor to express my emotions in healthy ways, ways that don't hurt other people. I'll make mistakes. Sometimes I'll encounter people who lie, who are hypocrites, who don't care about the pain other people feel as long as they perceive themselves to be safe. And I'll tell them how I feel about them. I don't need to be at one extreme or the other, those aren't the only choices.
Some thoughts I have about this. Overall this is in my opinion a good start on a healthy attitude. Now to nit pick: The kind of suffering that Trump conservatives are inflicting on the Nation are in my opinion outrageous. There's a surfeit of news to cause that. But if you understand how disgust works on the human psyche, you will see, in my opinion at least, that none of those behaviors that are driving us wild have a cause that can be found guilty of blame. All of it is, in my opinion again, the result of programming that has put people to sleep. You can't blame sleeping machines. You are responding to Greenman this way, I would say. He has moral convictions that are based as are yours, on programmed belief that does not accurately reflect the actual situation. You don't like emotional indifference and see it in Greenman. He does not like judgmental rage and he sees it in liberals. Both indifference and judgmentalism are bad things in the thought created dualistic world. But good and bad are creations of the mind and do not exist.

The problem with the world we create isn't that some are good and others evil. It's that humanity is asleep. Terrible things happen as a result and we add to it via blame. The kind of sleep humanity suffers is from being beaten and more beatings won't fix it. Quite the opposite. The misunderstanding of good intent is everywhere.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,970
6,581
126
When Nazis say it is time to go rounding people up. I am going to agree with them - just not in a manner to their liking.
I find it would be rather difficult to do that while alone in a cave.
What we need is a pack of wolves. For there is flesh that needs rending.
Nice daydream. You are obviously terrified someone is after you and engaging in fantasy play to ward off the evil by hyping up how you will be a threat.

Not to worry. If I don't report in on a secret timetable to my people the people of Earth will be annihilated.
 
Mar 28, 2008
93
194
106
Some thoughts I have about this. Overall this is in my opinion a good start on a healthy attitude. Now to nit pick: The kind of suffering that Trump conservatives are inflicting on the Nation are in my opinion outrageous. There's a surfeit of news to cause that. But if you understand how disgust works on the human psyche, you will see, in my opinion at least, that none of those behaviors that are driving us wild have a cause that can be found guilty of blame. All of it is, in my opinion again, the result of programming that has put people to sleep. You can't blame sleeping machines. You are responding to Greenman this way, I would say. He has moral convictions that are based as are yours, on programmed belief that does not accurately reflect the actual situation. You don't like emotional indifference and see it in Greenman. He does not like judgmental rage and he sees it in liberals. Both indifference and judgmentalism are bad things in the thought created dualistic world. But good and bad are creations of the mind and do not exist.

The problem with the world we create isn't that some are good and others evil. It's that humanity is asleep. Terrible things happen as a result and we add to it via blame. The kind of sleep humanity suffers is from being beaten and more beatings won't fix it. Quite the opposite. The misunderstanding of good intent is everywhere.
You are as always welcome to your conviction that I and virtually everyone else are sleeping machines responding via our programming, suffering from the same fundamental misunderstanding of or disconnection from reality. My opinion is that you've created a reality for yourself where there is one cause and one effect which applies to everyone. Perhaps that idea helped you get through some trauma, or helps you makes sense of a complex world. Your dualistic view is that the world consists of people who are asleep, and people who know how to wake themselves up. I endeavor to take responsibility for what I say and do, and expect others to do the same. Your mileage may vary.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,970
6,581
126
You are as always welcome to your conviction that I and virtually everyone else are sleeping machines responding via our programming, suffering from the same fundamental misunderstanding of or disconnection from reality. My opinion is that you've created a reality for yourself where there is one cause and one effect which applies to everyone. Perhaps that idea helped you get through some trauma, or helps you makes sense of a complex world. Your dualistic view is that the world consists of people who are asleep, and people who know how to wake themselves up. I endeavor to take responsibility for what I say and do, and expect others to do the same. Your mileage may vary.
When I speak with you I must use language, but fingers that point at the moon are not the moon. It is language itself that creates duality. As I said this misunderstanding will follow you wherever you go. That which you think of as yourself is a defense mechanism which when it searches for truth will only trick you. There is no you that knows how to wake up. The ego will never wake up because the ego, the you you imagine you are, already defines itself as awake. There is an experience some call grace that happens to some who come to the end of their rope, who experience an irrepressible desire to escape and the awareness it's impossible. There is a door in that place that opens of itself.

The knowledge that I speak of, the existence of a transcendental state, enlightenment, awakening, mysticism, a thousand other useless names, isn't something person or peculiar to me, it is connected to many many bodies of knowledge many of which are ancient. All are hidden, lost, or corrupted by the enemy, ego, because ego is the denial of what you really feel. What life for most is management of their illness. I expect nothing from you. I just happen to be here to tell you.

There are so many in the world who hurt and know nothing about this.
 

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,236
2,571
136
What is going on in the US *could be* the best thing thats ever happened to it. A timely catharsis that impacts so many ppl (esp MAGAts) that they awaken to the fact that their choice of leader is an unmitigated disaster. When they suffer so badly on the economic front they will rebel. But it will all be over in 4 years. And any future deranged populist will have an uphill battle when no one will ever want a repeat of the orange buffoon again.
 
Reactions: RalphTheCow
Mar 28, 2008
93
194
106
When I speak with you I must use language, but fingers that point at the moon are not the moon. It is language itself that creates duality. As I said this misunderstanding will follow you wherever you go. That which you think of as yourself is a defense mechanism which when it searches for truth will only trick you. There is no you that knows how to wake up. The ego will never wake up because the ego, the you you imagine you are, already defines itself as awake. There is an experience some call grace that happens to some who come to the end of their rope, who experience an irrepressible desire to escape and the awareness it's impossible. There is a door in that place that opens of itself.

The knowledge that I speak of, the existence of a transcendental state, enlightenment, awakening, mysticism, a thousand other useless names, isn't something person or peculiar to me, it is connected to many many bodies of knowledge many of which are ancient. All are hidden, lost, or corrupted by the enemy, ego, because ego is the denial of what you really feel. What life for most is management of their illness. I expect nothing from you. I just happen to be here to tell you.

There are so many in the world who hurt and know nothing about this.
Excellent.
 

DisarmedDespot

Senior member
Jun 2, 2016
598
599
136
What is going on in the US *could be* the best thing thats ever happened to it. A timely catharsis that impacts so many ppl (esp MAGAts) that they awaken to the fact that their choice of leader is an unmitigated disaster. When they suffer so badly on the economic front they will rebel. But it will all be over in 4 years. And any future deranged populist will have an uphill battle when no one will ever want a repeat of the orange buffoon again.
I'm not so sure they'll ever wake up. A country faced with its own hubris doesn't grow, it doubles down. Just look at the UK and Brexit.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,970
6,581
126
I'm not so sure they'll ever wake up. A country faced with its own hubris doesn't grow, it doubles down. Just look at the UK and Brexit.
Insanity is believing the cure is more of the same. This is what hubris is, fear of loss of control one lost long ago. Humility, the weakening of egotism is required to slow down such behavior. In our culture humility is synonymous with weakness.
 
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