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  1. C

    What changes are necessary to restore sanity and functionality to politics and government?

    My take: The corrupt and rigged duopoly has perverted democracy and civil discourse into a toxic, dysfunctional, and increasingly dangerous mess. Setting aside specific policy issues, I think the best change can come from structural fixes to put more power into the peoples' hands and not the...
  2. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    OK, this post has run it's course... the same hideous troll, tools, and hacks are doing their P&N thing. I was wondering how long they could contain themselves, lol. Cheers.
  3. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    No it will force the legislators to actually legislate instead of doing what they do 80% of the time right now... which is not legislating. You keep saying the special interests would have so much power, but like the entire concept, you're trying to place this square idea into a circle box...
  4. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    I think I've been spelling out a lot on here. Perhaps you should engage in a real discussion instead of always asking me to do something in one sentence posts.
  5. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    The institutional knowledge piece would be the hardest nut to crack, but I think it can be controlled for with a proper structure and processes. I think it would be so different, the institutional knowledge factor would be greatly reduced in terms of importance because the entire make-up is...
  6. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    Right? Everyone is acting like these idiots are some paragons of expertise and intelligence. OK, you or somebody may not respect the idea of sortition... fine, it's a bit out there. But some of the rationale is spooky.
  7. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    I'm interested in what you two think they mean.
  8. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    The term is already only 2 years, you act like 1 year is earth-shattering. The only reason they stay forever in the house is because of a rigged partisan structure. Here is how I see it. To many people go to Congress bright eyed and bushy tailed and within a few years they have been ground down...
  9. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    Well hell, that's practically sortition... a cross section of everyday people making decisions. At least with sortition, arguably, they are more "safety" controls in place to mitigate shitty decision making.
  10. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    You and fskimospy are basically making the same point, I but do not agree. There would be some challenges to a 1 year term (maybe 2?) but I believe they can be overcome. There are plenty of bright people that can build models that are feasible. With sortition, the very nature of staff/lobbyist...
  11. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    g You're taking some exaggerated worst case scenario and twisting it. Elitist fearmongering. Let's take such thinking to it's logical conclusion: Half the population are below average so juries should only be experts. In fact, half of voters are below average so lets have experts pick the...
  12. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    Right... I'm sure the House is full of experts on the subject. In fact, they're so full of experts on everything, I bet they don't need the lobbyists and staff that actually write the laws. By the way, such regulatory matters are mostly an executive branch thing, created and carried out by...
  13. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    Intelligence is overrated... a lot of people are smart, but they do terrible things with it... or nothing at all. I have more faith and I believe a cross section would be fine. Sometime such people have better common sense than so-called intelligent people. We let below average people on juries...
  14. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    Obviously that wouldn't be the case. As mentioned there would have to be some requirements. Registered voter of course. Age? Sound mind? Felony? Debt? Other? I'm sure people could argue the standards/disqualifications.
  15. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    I suppose you're right, government is a reflection of the people and we have the Congress we deserve :(
  16. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    If you think Congress is working well then obviously you don't want change. Judging from the polls, a lot of people disagree regarding congressional performance. I believe it's incredibly corrupt and inefficient. There is zero real debate, honesty, or independent thinking. They are concerned...
  17. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    Reps and Dems have been writing election laws for 150 years that have closed and rigged the system. One example is how in Arizona a Rep or Dem needs around 100 signatures to get on a ballot while an independent needs around 10,000. (I don't remember the exact numbers off hand but it's something...
  18. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    Because current politicians have proven themselves to be extremely competent. I think too many people have some "savior politician" complex and just want to be ruled by elites. I'd say given the right chance "normal" people can represent us just fine.
  19. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    Democracy is not voting. Democracy is rule by the people, although this is usually implemented as a representative democracy. That's fine, I'm not trying to get rid of representative democracy or voting, I'm saying democracy can and should include other features.
  20. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    Hahaha, that's a pretty perverted take on it. It's one element of breaking down the 2-party stranglehold. Ranked choice, term limits, banning gerrymandering, open primaries, reformed elections laws (that actually allow independents to run for office, etc)... a general change in values that moves...
  21. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    I thought it was clear, I'm talking about the national House of Representatives. There are plenty of other elections to vote in.
  22. C

    Can real civil discourse and good governance exist in our current 2-party paradigm?

    Sorry, I didn't know there were rules that I had to only reply to certain comments and not others. I said I was going to respond to Smogzinn's legitimate (but wrongheaded) post... but I think I won't respond at all. P&N is still P&N, a pathetic leftwing strokefest that's creepy as hell. This -in...
  23. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    We've greatly over-complicated things. And a lot of the rules and processes in the House are there only because of the party garbage... streamline and simplify. Besides, staff do most of the research and stuff like that. You give the politicians too much credit. We'll still have the Senate, but...
  24. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    LOL... bye
  25. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    If 12 random, normal people can decide whether or not a human being will spend their life in prison, or be sentenced to death… can random, normal people represent each other? Can normal, random people help create (or remove) legislation and policies? Can anyone explain to me why slick, power...
  26. C

    Can real civil discourse and good governance exist in our current 2-party paradigm?

    hahahah, nice one. You got me. I especially like how you say that me describing the sarcastic, insulting, degrading, and condescending attacks on me as hateful is just me 'thinking I know you people better than you know yourselves.'
  27. C

    Can Sortition Help "Fix" Our Damaged Political System?

    Sortition: In governance, sortition (also known as selection by lottery, selection by lot, allotment, demarchy, stochocracy, and aleatoric democracy) is the selection of political officials as a random sample from a larger pool of candidates. Greek democracy was largely based on sortition. I...
  28. C

    Can real civil discourse and good governance exist in our current 2-party paradigm?

    Excellent posts, here is what I've learned so far: 1) Hateful strangers know me better than I know myself 2) This incestuous echo chamber is petty and tribal 3) Most of the discussion here confirms my thoughts on why our politics is so toxic and dysfunctional Smogzinn responded to my points so...
  29. C

    Can real civil discourse and good governance exist in our current 2-party paradigm?

    I don't think that's the crux (the problems are far broader and deeper) but it is a serious issue.
  30. C

    Can real civil discourse and good governance exist in our current 2-party paradigm?

    Oh lord, the Republican Party attempted to end the republic? How can I take you seriously now? Every thing I listed earlier is part of the growing dysfunction. If you think the Dem party hasn't heavily contributed to our current political shithole over the last few decades, then I'd just...
  31. C

    Can real civil discourse and good governance exist in our current 2-party paradigm?

    I'll just copy and paste this again.... a both sides thing: Beholden to special interests Lack of independent thinking Creating rigged and corrupt policies and election laws that favor them and stifle choice and competition Lack of honesty and integrity Permanent campaign Blank check spending...
  32. C

    Can real civil discourse and good governance exist in our current 2-party paradigm?

    Tell that to a Republican... I have no use for political tribes. Pretty sure the last time I posted here was 2016 during the GOP primary debate, and I made my thoughts about Trump pretty clear.
  33. C

    Can real civil discourse and good governance exist in our current 2-party paradigm?

    On net, they are not as bad as the GOP. The main concerns I have are how the parties operate and exist. I am less concerned with actual issues (like abortion, etc) I feel that reasonable people can disagree, compromise, and function together on a variety of issues, but that really can't happen...
  34. C

    Can real civil discourse and good governance exist in our current 2-party paradigm?

    I appreciate trying to get back to the main point. Let me be clear. Trump is human trash and his cultlike followers are nutters. The embarrassing meltdown of the GOP is well deserved. That said, we have a system that's created this... a broken system. And things will not get better if we just...
  35. C

    Can real civil discourse and good governance exist in our current 2-party paradigm?

    Why are you making demands... you're like an annoying fly. I can't answer that because I have no preset, automatic, partisan, talking points to parrot. I would have to think about it and spend some time analyzing potential solutions. I do not pretend to know it all. We are on different levels...
  36. C

    Can real civil discourse and good governance exist in our current 2-party paradigm?

    Yes... I believe the Dems are crap-lite. They have been pushed into extremes and we can do so much better. As far as entitlement, I think you have it backwards. If the system burns it's the "haves" that have the most to lose. Besides, it's you're arrogant demands that people vote against their...
  37. C

    Can real civil discourse and good governance exist in our current 2-party paradigm?

    I would argue it is. We're going down a bad path and it'll only get worse because people like you will bully and guilt others into voting for crap because the other crap is worse. That's really what we've come to? I call that a broken system. I'm over it, a pox on both on them, let it burn if...
  38. C

    Can real civil discourse and good governance exist in our current 2-party paradigm?

    Bullshit, don't put that on me. Lesser evil voting is killing this country. Say that out loud 1000 times.
  39. C

    Can real civil discourse and good governance exist in our current 2-party paradigm?

    I think you've remarkably demonstrated why Left partisans are just as unreasonable, tribal, and simplistic. You've already assigned me into some fantasy category, and it's pretty clear you're entire worldview consists of the same rainbows and unicorns. As I mentioned earlier, try not to be so...
  40. C

    Can real civil discourse and good governance exist in our current 2-party paradigm?

    Totally agree.
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